Whatever you hear from the platform partisans, either will do the job equally well.
These days it’s a matter of personal preference and comfort.
John is dead on. Anyone telling you one is better than the other knows nothing about the one they’re claiming to be inferior.
Use what you like just be aware that you’ll need to contact Adobe to move to a different platform and if you have a version earlier than CS3 you will be forced to upgrade and destroy the earlier versions.
Bob
Thanks guys,
At no point does Adobe actually suggest that we use Mac over Pc do they? Almost all the Adobe Photoshop books and tutorials that i have seen have Mac screen shots. Does this mean anything? Why are book authors using Mac over PC?
Just some loud thinking.
Regards,
meethil
Does this mean anything? Why are book authors using Mac over PC?
It means they prefer Mac. Nothing more, nothing less.
Many authors use both and switch back and forth for screenshots.
Bob
It’s a throwback and it’s changing.
Just out of interest, the Adobe Classroom in a Book series for CS3 put the Windows keyboard commands first and the Mac OS commands second!
Unfortunately, the graphics industry here doesn’t know that. A recent ad on Craigsliszt for a designer stated that the applicant should know both, but must have a Mac!
I use them both from time to time. I agree with the others, except that I find the Mac keyboard layout much more logical and so I’ve configured my keyboard to work like a Mac keyboard.
The one benefit that Mac has over a PC is that it can run both Windows and Mac OS – – but Photoshop will function just as well in either platform.
I agree with respondants above generally about the use and performance of Photoshop on any given platform.
However…
Maintaining a smoothly running systemoverallis generally regarded as less of a hassle on Macs than it is with Windows. Built in security is better and easier to administer and less intrusive on the Mac OS, which means that there’s no fuss or worry about viruses, worms and trojans, and which also means you have less to think about on a day-to-day basis as far as keeping your whole system up and running and secure. The less time and thought spent on the system means more time to devote to getting down to the business of actually getting things done.
Are you a hard-core, deeply vested system tweaker, who knows their OS forwards and backwards and can tweak an HKEY in the blink of an eye?
Cool, I respect that. Go for whichever you want.
Do you just want a system that works, without having to spend any time worrying about virues and the AV routines?
Get a Mac.
Still need to run Windows for certain proprietary software, or for Windows-only apps?
Get a Mac. Use Windows when you must (and still, you have to worry a bit about crapware infiltration. So it goes. When you’re done working with the Windows apps, jump back over to the Mac OS and you can return to relaxing back into your canoe and enjoy the float downstream.
🙂
Get a Mac.
If any Windows user can prove to me they spend less time and energy worrying about their system configs and guarding against securrity breeches than I do, all I can say is…prove it.
Windows is fine. You can get stuff done. But the maintenance hassles FAR exceed those experienced by equally adept users of the Mac OS.
And there are NO independent reports that have EVER said otherwise.
Also sprach Zarathustra a Maccer.
I don’t spend any time and energy "worrying about system configs".
And I will only experience "securrity breeches" [sic] when I am old and incontinent.
I’m laughin g right along with you about my post-pub typo. DANG FUNNY!
But, tell me, J.J. (and you know I love ya, sweetie): Ya got some sort of always-looking-for-an-update AV utility on that there Winders boxen you run? I’d only put this question to you if you run only one machine for PS, email, e-surfing, ad libibnium (I made that up ;)).
Otherwise my points are only somewhat moot.
always-looking-for-an-update AV utility
I think most of them can be set to do this now.
"Always on" broadband has its disadvantages but it has some advantages as well.
So do firewalls.
Well Phos, I totally disagree with your diatribe.
I’ve been using the NT based Windows since 3.5, viruses were never an issue. Stability was never an issue. Yeah I tweak the OS a bit, but that takes all of ten minutes out of my year.
For a Mac/PC story, I took a CD to my printer with an Acrobat file on it (a rather large one) and quite simply in the time it took the icon to appear on his 9.x desktop, I would have had the file loaded into Acrobat and started ripping the file to the (NT based) proofer. While somewhat incredulous, he did drop by to check out my WIN2K system and was surprised at the speed of it. Essentially, his staff was not doing their system upkeep. His dual 800 sucked wind compared to my dual 1Ghz. I have other such ‘Mac’ stories about their less than stellar performance in a work environment.
This is not an anti-Mac diatribe, but I am fed up with the type of crap that gets spewed by the Mac camp about all Windows based machines being the same. It’s just not true.
I think I may have gotten a virus many years ago when I was on Win 3.11 but I can’t recall the last time I got hit and it has been a good twelve years.
As far as ‘always on’ broadband having disadvantages, it doesn’t if you have a router between your system and the ‘modem’ and do a simple 5 minute config, if you want to get fancy it may take an extra 5 minutes to do the addition encryption.
"Macs don’t get those cryptic error messages, they get a silly little bomb graphic in the middle of the screen that doesn’t say anything."
The main reason why graphic/photographic pros often prefer Mac over PC is colour management. It’s an integral part of every Mac system but not of Windows PCs. That’s a good thing but with a little additional effort you can establish a perfectly colour-managed workflow on PC too.
If you have Photoshop for Windows then be aware that switching to Mac means buying a new full retail version of Photoshop (or Creative Suite)! As far as I know there is no cheap migration path between the systems.
— Olaf
Dear Olaf,
Please elaborate on the color management system in the Mac.
thanks
Phos,
Stick to what you know, please. Windows is obviously something you don’t know anything about. The Mac forums here are littered with spinning beach ball reports, font problems, and the like. Macs are not maintainance-free
If the rosetta thing had been a Microsoft idea, the Mac users would be laughing about how stupid it was. If one button mice shipped with Windows machines Mac users would snickering amongst themselves. Running an old operating system within a new one (classic). Boy oh boy…what great idea that is.
So please, do a little research on well designed modern Windows systems before making ridiculous statements.
I spend no time very little time maintaining my system. The AV software updates itself in the background every day and I have Windows updates turned on. Nothing to do on my end except use the machine.
I’ll say it again. Anyone who thinks one system is better than the other knows nothing about the "inferior" system and IMO, brings doubt about their knowledge of the "superior" system.
Bob
Built in security is better and easier to administer and less intrusive on the Mac OS, which means that there’s no fuss or worry about viruses, worms and trojans, and which also means you have less to think about on a day-to-day basis as far as keeping your whole system up and running and secure.
This is a load of crap. Apple just patched Quicktime (for both Mac and Windows) which previously allowed a remote user to take control of a system. No system is ever safe.
No fuss or worry? Sure, only if you are an oblivious idiot. 🙂
Do you just want a system that works, without having to spend any time worrying about virues and the AV routines?
I know of no Windows user that worries about this. We use automatic updates.
Use Windows when you must (and still, you have to worry a bit about crapware infiltration.
One can worry about crapware infiltration on Mac too <
http://macscan.securemac.com/>.
If any Windows user can prove to me they spend less time and energy worrying about their system configs and guarding against securrity breeches than I do, all I can say is…prove it.
Windows is fine. You can get stuff done. But the maintenance hassles FAR exceed those experienced by equally adept users of the Mac OS.
It is impossible to prove that Windows takes less maintenance than Mac. It is also impossible to prove Mac takes less maintenance than Windows. I use Mac and Windows equally. I spend the same amount of time on either system doing maintenance. I also spend the same amount of time in both the Mac and Windows Photoshop forums. Visit the Mac Photoshop forum and check out all the threads that talk about system updates and Cocktail updates. I see less discussion about system maintenance on the Photoshop Windows forum than the Mac forum. Go figure. When you update your Mac OS, do you use the software update or the manually downloadable combo update? When did you last repair permissions? Did you repair permissions before and after that software or system update installation? Do you let your computer run overnight? Do you use Cocktail? Did you defrag your drive for files greater than 20 MB?
The Mac requires just as much maintenance as any other system. Those who claim otherwise are not maintaining their system properly.
If you have Photoshop for Windows then be aware that switching to Mac means buying a new full retail version of Photoshop (or Creative Suite)! As far as I know there is no cheap migration path between the systems.
Not exactly. Search the forum and adobe.com for ‘crossgrade’. It is not too painful to switch.
Phos has more than one problem.
Well I tried to keep it light-hearted rather than confrontational! 🙁
I seem to be hearing lots of complaints about Vista. I know some people who have wiped their machines and gone back to XP, but how long can you keep running an old system? at some point you will need to upgrade to run the latest and greatest Adobe has to offer.
Same on the Mac OS 10.5 soon to be released. what nightmares will it bring? or will it just be sweetness and light.
What it all boils dow to is what are you used to? and what are you willing to put up with? If you’ve never played with a Mac go to an Apple store and play with one. I’d wait till the New OS is released that way you can compare it with Vista.
I am also wondering, I have a quad core 3 gig Vista Prem and it chokes at times running CS3 P-Shop.
Does anyone think the mac’s will choke less??
Stuck in Kentucky
Ken
how long can you keep running an old system?
Within the past month or so, I saw someone in the Mac forum that was just moving from OS9.
With each new OS release, you need to allow some time for growing pains. I remember the pains when both OSX and XP came out. For those not wanting Vista now, I suspect XP will be safe for a couple more years.
Like operating systems, Photoshop is getting pretty bloated. There is not a critical need to stay fully up-to-date. Most of my systems are upgraded on every other Photoshop release. This allows me to run XP and OSX10.4 for at least the next three years, if necessary.
Does anyone think the mac’s will choke less??
It depends on what it is choking on. What can you tell us?
Ken: Not sure why, I’m using Vista Ultimate (which is the biggest resource hog) and CS2 runs like a champ.
Buko: I think that most of the problems with Vista are the UAC (turned off) being incredibly annoying, but there could be a lot of other reasons. I just built a new machine (the old one was six years old and the RAM was starting to go), Vista runs great in either 32 or 64 bit mode. It required some tuning of the OS but most of the problems were caused by other software like the Macrovision software auto-updater causing delays (now turned off).
It took two weeks before I considered it production-ready but that is because I wanted to make sure I understood the new OS, it was a major change from WIN2K.
klaw, the problem is the bottleneck on the quad(or duos)Front Side Bus. Everything between cpu and computer breakouts (memory, I/O devices etc) goes through that. Every Intel processor to date requires an external FSB and MCH to run, and they are identical for single, duo and quads. That means all that multiple core processing power has to go through a bus designed for single processors.
I watched a Mac fellow really struggle with his computer attempting to get the ColorBurst dongle to be recognized. It took rebooting twice to get it running, this after all the troubleshooting procedures (which are basically identical with PC) to get it to run.
Ho hum!
Meethil asked that age-old question about "Mac or Windows?"
S/he (sorry, don’t know the gender of that name!) asked the question in a forum visited predominately by Windows users.
I stated my claims with confidence, and I get blasted for giving a viewpoint which might not be well-tolerated or embraced.
I might as well have been taking a dump next to the communal fire in the "enemy’s" camp. I expected to get my butt singed a little bit.
But that’s OK. I’m a big boy. I can take it.
And I still stick by everything I wrote.
Well, except for the "securrity breeches" bit. Could’ve tweaked that back into shape a little, I suppose.
🙂
And no matter which isolated instances of Apple security problems any of you may point tohell, use all of them together in one giant flaming bombardmentthey STILL don’t even come close to adding up to a tiny fraction of the similar issues with the past 10 years or more of Windows. The QuickTime problems were mentioned: Show me A SINGLE report where that problem caused any widespread, self-propagating problems on Macs. Just ONE report. That’s all I ask for.
Problems? Yup, they are an inherent part of the systemANY system. I stand by my points. The Mac OS has had far fewer.
Roast away, "enemy campers!" 😉 XD
You’re missing the point, Phos.
Nobody gives a rat’s behind about "reports." We’re the ones using these machines.
Again, note that I’m not calling Windows a superior/easier/safer/[fill in your favorite adjective here] operating system. Mac and Windows are different…end of story.
I’m perfectly capable of using a Mac. I just don’t like them. And that’s the only thing that should enter into this…personal preference.
Bob
S/he (sorry, don’t know the gender of that name!) asked the question in a forum visited predominately by Windows users.
The same question was also asked in the Mac forums. The OP wanted a balanced response to their question.
And no matter which isolated instances of Apple security problems any of you may point tohell, use all of them together in one giant flaming bombardmentthey STILL don’t even come close to adding up to a tiny fraction of the similar issues with the past 10 years or more of Windows.
I really could not care less about vulnerability statistics. It only takes one vulnerability for an attacker to compromise your computer. Anyone using a Mac without taking measures to secure their system is ignorant. As a user of both platforms, the last virus I tangled with was the autostart worm in the late 1990s. That was a Mac-only virus.
"the autostart worm in the late 1990s. That was a Mac-only virus."
Here’s how that went down:
It was discovered. News flashed around the web instantaneously, and rose to a peak by about 9:00pm EST.
By about 3:00am EST that night/early the next morning, several people had independently created fixes for the AutoStart worm, and by mid morning the free and very simple instructions for repair was EVERYWHERE. Simultaneously, a couple people created and packaged a script wrapped in a dead-simple GUI that would scan for and eradicate the worm. That free utility propagated far and wide before 36 hours had elapsed.
Where I worked at the time we were getting the AutoStart worm on ZIP disks supplied by customersmaybe one out of every 15 disks that came in. We scanned them, fixed them and then sent along a copy of the fix to every customer we had, with instructions on how to use it. Within less than a week, no more AutoStart-infected disks were arriving at our door. I’d be willing to guess that many other users did something similar.
It disappeared quickly, and has become nothing more than a footnote.
Hardly what I’d call a dire calamity.
Got another?
"The same question was also asked in the Mac forums. The OP wanted a balanced response to their question."
Meh, saw it here first.
1 out of every 15 disks seems to be significantly more than the zero viruses that I have had on my Windows computers. Regardless of the life of the infection, that is a pretty significant viral distribution for an OS that is not supposed to have viruses.
10 years ago, it might have made sense that we would share antivirus utilities to help our clients manually clean their systems of the autostart worm. But today, Windows users have access to several free and commercial antivirus apps that auto-update so the user has no need to manually apply such fixes. It is in the culture of Windows users to run AV software. So what happens when OSX gets a bug? Will Mac users be sleeping when something hits? Will Phos need to send manual removal instructions to all his clients again?
"Will Mac users be sleeping when something hits?"
Wake me up or nudge my butt off the bar stool just as soon as that happens, mmmkay, Jimmy?
😉 XD
Phos: The ‘Auto-start’ virus was actually one of the first virii created, it goes way back before 1990, like the late 80s. To this day you still have turn on ‘Auto Start’ on a Mac, it is turned off as a default for that reason.
"nudge my butt off the bar stool". Trying forget something?
1 out of every 15 disks seems to be significantly more than the zero viruses that I have had on my Windows computers.
I don’t understand that statement. What disks? The installation disks? one out of fifteen spread out over what #.1 to Vista or what if you are referring to OS installation disks?
‘1 out of every 15 disks’ means that 1 out of every 15 zip disks that Phos was supplied by his Mac clients had a virus. Scroll up a bit to read Phos’ original post that I quoted.
"Trying forget something?"
"Those that use Mac to be ignorant of security issues (where viruses are only a subset) are either sleeping or drunk (often stuck to said ‘bar stool’)."
There seems to be a serious dearth of humor in the souls of my most esteemed "opponents".
Lighten up, fellas!
"I see at least 2 anti-virus utilities being sold on Apple.com."
Yeah? What’s your point? The exact same suckers buy the special undercaoting package for their new cars and extended warranty packages for their refrigerators, too.
Let the buyer beware be aware.
The point is not that one necessarily needs to buy these. The point is that if Apple was so confident that their OS was totally immune from viruses, they would not be selling snake oil on their own site. Nor would they suggest getting AV software.
"A Mac running with factory settings will protect you from viruses much better than a PC, but its never a bad idea to run extra virus and security software." [source: Apple.com <
http://www.apple.com/getamac/viruses.html>]
It is true that Mac is less susceptible to viruses than Windows. One eliminates a good portion of vulnerability by primarily operating the computer as a non-admin user. Security is not about avoiding the 114,000 viruses on Windows. It is avoiding the one Mac or Windows virus or exploit that goes undetected.
Actually, the University of Wisconsin ran a test on Mac, and found that, once inside, a Mac is no less vulnerable than PC. Getting inside is the difficult part. Ergo, Phos’ infections via the disks. (Thanks, Jim. I missed that part in his post.)
‘1 out of every 15 disks’ means that 1 out of every 15 zip disks that Phos was supplied by his Mac clients had a virus.
And that virus was made to run on a Windows machine. In other words It can’t work in a Mac environment so its completely harmless to the Mac.
"Nowhere does Apple say that they are immune."
Of course they don’t. That would just be stupid corporate behavior. I’m sure there are even guidelines buried in Apple’s (and most other big company’s…) legal closet which would prohibit such an absolute statement.
That would be like me saying I never make misteaks.
And oui awl no thats knot true.
And that virus was made to run on a Windows machine. In other words It can’t work in a Mac environment so its completely harmless to the Mac.
Hmmm… Buko is showing his youth. 🙂
Those of us that have used Mac for the past 10 years must have come across it at least once. (Unless we ignored AV software and it ran without detection.)
The autostart worm <
http://www.macintouch.com/hkvirus.html> was indeed a virus that affected Mac. If one put the same disk in a Windows computer, the Windows computer would not be affected. (The HFS volume would likely not be read on Windows anyway)
A Mac running with factory settings will protect you from viruses much better than a PC
So if I catch a cold, my pc is to blame?
Fine. I can live with that.
Rob
"And that virus was made to run on a Windows machine. In other words It can’t work in a Mac environment so its completely harmless to the Mac."
Erm…Hunh?
We were talking about the AutoStart (a/k/a the "Hong Kong" virus (named for the location of its early appearance) a/k/a 9805var. A,B,C,D,& E>
<
http://www.macintouch.com/hkvirus.html#desc>
"The Macintosh world has been largely free of new Mac-specific viruses and their kin over the past few years. The last real virus to emerge was in April of 1994, when the INIT-29-B virus appeared. In 1995, we saw the Hypercard HC-9507 virus appear, and the first Microsoft Word macro virus. Thereafter, except for residual infections of old viruses, the only worrisome Macintosh-specific malware for almost 3 years have been macro viruses of Microsoft software. (Contrast this with as many as ten thousand new viruses for that other PC platform in the same time period.)"
This was written about 9 years ago, and it still rings true, particularly the last parenthetical statement.
Sure, you can remain virtually securrity breech-free on a Windows system. If nothing from outside your own cave ever comes in contact with your system, and/or if you are a savvy enough user to have the proper prophylactic systems in place and up-to-date. But, that’s not very practical. What about your Aunt Frank who forwards every piece of cutesy crap they get from their AOL pals? You better hope your Winders is shuttered down tight.
Me? I hate all that FWD:ed crap, but if the stuff Uncle Judy sends me is infected with something brand new, I don’t worry.
I’m running the Mac OS.
When and if something major hits on the Mac OS, word will spread worldwide in a flash. Then I’ll start to have some concern.
Meanwhile, I think I’ll have another Victory Storm King Stout, bartender. And could I get an order of viper hot wings with bleu cheese and celery?
🙂
One other point:
"Bill Gates is the devil, let us smite his creations with boils" and most of the virus writers use a PC so I guess this is a "**** in your own backyard, it’s quicker" lazyness.
I’m sure if these morons write viruses they also write the patch at the same time. "I need work, I can **** you and caress you at the same time".
Apple has embraced UNIX, if they had a mirror they would know where their *** is!
Oh, and then there was SevenDust (a/k/a MDEFvar.A-G, a/k/a 666, a/k/a/ the "Graphics Accelerator!" worm)
Out of the hundreds or thousands of Mac users I have dealt with, I know of none who had gotten bitten by it.
<
http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid= 2000-122112-5959-99>"Threat Assessment
Wild
* Wild Level: Low
* Number of Infections: 0 – 49
* Number of Sites: 0 – 2
* Geographical Distribution: Low
* Threat Containment: Easy
* Removal: Easy
Damage
* Damage Level: Low
Distribution
* Distribution Level: LowOooooo…I’m quivering with fear!
Or maybe the alcohol level in my blood is low.
BARTENDER!
🙂
If ever there was a thread that’s going nowhere, this is it.
I beg to differ, J.J.
This thread is a valuable reminder about disparities and complacency.
ANSWER:
Those that don’t use AV apps (such as Mac users) may become complacent and get hit harder by an exploit than Windows users (who have been conditioned to know better).
"Those that don’t use AV apps (such as Mac users) may become complacent and get hit harder by an exploit than Windows users (who have been conditioned to know better)."
Wake me up when I need to pay attention, in case I sleep through the alarm.
I swear! i hit that snooze button in my sleep. I don’t even know I’m doing it!
Gotta love the stereotypical Mac vs PC battle…
You have to agree though, percentage wise, you are much more likely to become infected by a trojan, worm or virus on a PC than on a Mac AND this is no reason to forget that you can pass a virus through a Mac undetected to your PC using firends, family and coworkers or clients if you have no anti-gunk software installed.
As far as Photoshop, or the host of Adobe Apps is concerned, there is very little difference in how they are run and what they can do for you anymore. It is simply a user preference at this point (personally I like all of the Vulcan Neck Pinch shortcuts on the Mac, the PC is just catching up to those). I currently use a PC, but come from a heavy Mac use background.
Along that note, I still notice the Macs in the office display colors darker than they appear on the PCs. A dark green site I created (on a PC) a while ago appears black on the Mac using default color settings for both.
Mac vs. Windows = Silly.
A weed smoking biker friend once said:
"I owned a Kawahondavidzuki bike. There were only two built and I had the fastest one."
His point was that the debate of which bike was best was really stupid. I think the same applies to computers, cameras & printers.
PC, Nikon and Epson here and they all serve me very well. I don’t care what others use. If someone else uses Mac, Canon & HP and they are happy with those products, who am I to say they are wrong?
Of course, if some one posted that their Hexlark printer needed replacement I would SUGGEST looking at what Epson had to offer.
As always, just my opinion.
Q
And now for something completely different:
Canon or Nikon?
— Olaf
Off you go to the Photography forum!
There is Nikon, then there is everyone else, of course!
It’s stupid crap like this <
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bc8bbab> that makes me more and more sure as every week goes by that I have made the best choice about the system I should be using.
For me. IMO. YMMV. Don’t get it wet or feed it after midnight. Do not pass "GO" and do not collect $200. Call your Mother. We don’t see the world as it is; we see it as we are.
(Is that enough disclaimers for y’all?)
🙂
No argument about the insidious pervasiveness and wide-ranging spread of pebkac, Jim.
