Why is there a difference?

"dblm" wrote in message

When I have processed a photo in PS7 (AdobeRGB working space) and save it with the AdobeRGB profile as a PSD format, it looks bad when opened in ACDSee (Version 5). "Bad" means here unsaturated colours, somewhat washed out, bleak.

ACDSee is not color managed. When you import the file from Photoshop, ACDSee disregards the profile ( it doesn’t even "know" what a profile is) and opens it using the default OS colorspace (sRGB). Thus, it looks "flat."

However, when I convert the profile of the same photo in PS from AdobeRGB

to

sRGB (which means that I see then basically about the same colours on my screen as in the original AdobeRGB-version), also save it in PSD format

and

open it up in ACDSee, the picture is fine and quite like the original one.

As it should, since your profile in PS now matches that of the OS, which is what ACDsee uses.

Apparently, ACDSee needs to have the pictures in sRGB profile in order to show the picture/colours I was satisfied with in PS (with AdobeRGB

profile).

Correct.

I have somewhat the same effect when I make use of a printservice. The prints that are returned to me are a bit "bleaker" (and have also a

somewhat

higher contrast) compared with my own print-outs (Epson 895, profiled).

The printservice is probably using a Fuji Frontier that has a native sRGB colorspace. Ask them, and then convert the files if necessary *before* sending it to them.

It costed me a hell of a lot of paper, ink and time before I had a reasonable workflow (what I see on my screen is what I get out of my printer), so you can imagine that I am a bit reluctant to start such a process again just because I want to find out …

That is understandable. What you have, I think, is a simple color managment problem that is easily solved by being careful with your choice of profiles, and colorspaces.

Do your work in Adobe RGB98 and save the file for use in your home workflow; you’ve paid your dues and it works for you. OTOH, if you want to go to an outside printing service, ask them what RGB colorspace they need, and simply convert your file accordingly. Last, a *good* service bureau will be able to to give you an actual profile for their printer: use it to soft-proof, make the final adjustments, and then simply convert to their custom profile. In that way, the prints should be right on the money. Good lick.

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I just wanted to add one thing: all my comments are directed towards a system that has a calibrated monitor. If your monitor is NOT accurately calibrated, then what you are seeing in ACDSee (or any program) is totally unpredictable. Furthermore, an image viewed on your monitor will likely not look anything like it does on anyone else’s monitor that IS calibrated.

I don’t mean to belabor this if you already know it, but it is the singlemost important issue in color management…and it causes endless grief to those who don’t get it right.

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On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:32:33 -0700, "Flycaster" wrote:

I just wanted to add one thing: all my comments are directed towards a system that has a calibrated monitor. If your monitor is NOT accurately calibrated, then what you are seeing in ACDSee (or any program) is totally unpredictable. Furthermore, an image viewed on your monitor will likely not look anything like it does on anyone else’s monitor that IS calibrated.
I don’t mean to belabor this if you already know it, but it is the singlemost important issue in color management…and it causes endless grief to those who don’t get it right.

Can I just add to your excellent analysis that the problem may also be CMYK related in the printing.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

"Hecate" wrote in message

Can I just add to your excellent analysis that the problem may also be CMYK related in the printing.

(nodding) Of course. But for his sake, I hope this is just a simple RGB problem. 😉

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On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:08:01 -0700, "Flycaster" wrote:

"Hecate" wrote in message

Can I just add to your excellent analysis that the problem may also be CMYK related in the printing.

(nodding) Of course. But for his sake, I hope this is just a simple RGB problem. 😉

Yep! I like to keep away from CMYK as much as possible 😉

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Flycaster, Hecate (veni, vidi, bene bibi),
Thanks for your clarification. Some time ago, I asked technical support of ACDSee if they used only sRGB as a default, but got no answer … About your second remark (monitor calibration): yes, in order. About the printservice: I will find out today about their profile (up to now I only talked to the owner of the photoshop who takes care of the printservice and who talks rubbish to a certain degree: he argued that, due to the sRGB profile, the colors would be compressed, so they would look more saturated…).
Thanks!
dbloem

Flycaster" wrote in message

"dblm" wrote in message

When I have processed a photo in PS7 (AdobeRGB working space) and save

it

with the AdobeRGB profile as a PSD format, it looks bad when opened in ACDSee (Version 5). "Bad" means here unsaturated colours, somewhat

washed

out, bleak.

ACDSee is not color managed. When you import the file from Photoshop, ACDSee disregards the profile ( it doesn’t even "know" what a profile is) and opens it using the default OS colorspace (sRGB). Thus, it looks

"flat."

However, when I convert the profile of the same photo in PS from

AdobeRGB

to

sRGB (which means that I see then basically about the same colours on my screen as in the original AdobeRGB-version), also save it in PSD format

and

open it up in ACDSee, the picture is fine and quite like the original

one.

As it should, since your profile in PS now matches that of the OS, which

is

what ACDsee uses.

Apparently, ACDSee needs to have the pictures in sRGB profile in order

to

show the picture/colours I was satisfied with in PS (with AdobeRGB

profile).

Correct.

I have somewhat the same effect when I make use of a printservice. The prints that are returned to me are a bit "bleaker" (and have also a

somewhat

higher contrast) compared with my own print-outs (Epson 895, profiled).

The printservice is probably using a Fuji Frontier that has a native sRGB colorspace. Ask them, and then convert the files if necessary *before* sending it to them.

It costed me a hell of a lot of paper, ink and time before I had a reasonable workflow (what I see on my screen is what I get out of my printer), so you can imagine that I am a bit reluctant to start such a process again just because I want to find out …

That is understandable. What you have, I think, is a simple color

managment

problem that is easily solved by being careful with your choice of

profiles,

and colorspaces.

Do your work in Adobe RGB98 and save the file for use in your home

workflow;

you’ve paid your dues and it works for you. OTOH, if you want to go to an outside printing service, ask them what RGB colorspace they need, and

simply

convert your file accordingly. Last, a *good* service bureau will be able to to give you an actual profile for their printer: use it to soft-proof, make the final adjustments, and then simply convert to their custom

profile.

In that way, the prints should be right on the money. Good lick.

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