B&W with Epson 1280????

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 05:18:20 GMT, "D McMillen" wrote:

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this printer? It always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

Yes, there is, but you won’t like the answer.

The answer is to dedicate it solely to black and white printing, buy another printer for colour, and use the inks and instructions provided by Lyson.

You can see their product at www.Lyson.com

And no, I don’t have any financial interest in the company, just an interest in getting excellent B&W repro 😉

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Another suggestion you may not like, upload the picture to a site like www.shutterfly.com and let them print it. I use them for important pictures and have always been 100% satisfied. I had one enlarged to a 10 X 12 that was taken with a 2 mg camera and it came out beautiful. Also, the prices are so inexpensive, I sometimes think it is cheaper by the time I run a test copy with the cost of high quality photo paper and ink. Other than that, I have to agree on having a dedicated color printer and a dedicated B & W. But I have NEVER been happy with anything printed in B & W on a reasonably priced printer. If I needed an excellent quality black and white print in a hurry, I would run to Kinko’s.
"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:53:52 -0700, Hecate wrote
(in message ):

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 05:18:20 GMT, "D McMillen" wrote:

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this printer? It
always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

Yes, there is, but you won’t like the answer.

The answer is to dedicate it solely to black and white printing, buy another printer for colour, and use the inks and instructions provided by Lyson.

You can see their product at www.Lyson.com

And no, I don’t have any financial interest in the company, just an interest in getting excellent B&W repro 😉

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Diann,
He’s pretty much right. Maybe you should obtain another Epson photo printer and dedicate it to those inks. It really takes another dedicated printer to output quality B&W using the Lyson like Hecate says. Mitchell

In article <w8pkb.815552$>,
"D McMillen" wrote:

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this printer? It always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

I use the 870, which is pretty much the same only smaller.

Here is how I make acceptable B&W prints. No, they don’t have the DMAX that the silver gelatin prints have and they don’t look like platinum prints either. OTOH, I usually do better prints this way than I ever did under the enlarger. That does say something about my wet darkroom abilities, but that’s why I use Photoshop.

First, they may look flat because you really don’t have the contrast range to the max. (OK, you may not always want that either.) Make sure the image has as black as you can get it; you have to start right. Getting the whites as much as you can will help, but don’t over do it. The image will never get whiter than the paper.

Grainy happens because you are just using the black ink. ‘Black ink only’ doesn’t make gray except by making a bunch of spaced black dots. Well, these printers don’t do that very well. The trick is to print in color. This will combine the cyan, magenta, and yellow to make grays that are much smoother than with just black ink. However…

Grays made with all 4 colors tend to make grays with odd color tints. These will even be different in different types of lighting. Some papers will do this less than others, but you can’t get rid of it completely. So, give the image the tints that you want.

One of the great things about good B&W photography has been the color of B&W prints. Yes, different papers have added their own tints. Toners for color or preservation have added color to the prints. That color has been used to help the mood and flavor of the image for 150 years. Now, in the digital age, we can do the same and more. In my wet darkroom, I had limited tones that I could use to enhance the feel of the image. Now, I can use any tone I want.

I pick my tones by first converting to Duotone. (Duotone seems to keep the black at their blackest.) Then I select the tint that I want from the list of Pantone colors. Sure you can use RGB, but Pantone colors seem to make it easier for me. I admit that I still tend to pick Sepia, Selinium, and gold-blue tones that fit what I saw in the darkroom. I’m getting a bit better at fine tuning the tone to fit the mood of the image and using more tones.

Using this process, I get very acceptable prints. Are they ready for the walls of the Art Institute in Chicago? Probably not. Then again, many would say that the custom gray ink prints aren’t either. Are they good enough for my clients and my wall? Absolutely. They have been loved by many without any complaints.

Give it a try. You’ll get better than you think.

Clyde

I think some of the black and white laser (not inkjet, but toner) would be a good investment for this purpose. They are so cheap now that a high resolution one can be purchased for less the $200. Save a ton of money over a longer time on cartridge replacements alone. Anyone have thoughts on this?

"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

I think some of the black and white laser (not inkjet, but toner) would be a good investment for this purpose. They are so cheap now that a high resolution one can be purchased for less the $200. Save a ton of money over a longer time on cartridge replacements alone. Anyone have thoughts on this?

"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:40:55 -0400, "The Data Rat" wrote:

Another suggestion you may not like, upload the picture to a site like www.shutterfly.com and let them print it. I use them for important pictures and have always been 100% satisfied. I had one enlarged to a 10 X 12 that was taken with a 2 mg camera and it came out beautiful. Also, the prices are so inexpensive, I sometimes think it is cheaper by the time I run a test copy with the cost of high quality photo paper and ink. Other than that, I have to agree on having a dedicated color printer and a dedicated B & W. But I have NEVER been happy with anything printed in B & W on a reasonably priced printer. If I needed an excellent quality black and white print in a hurry, I would run to Kinko’s.

Good point. I don’t know the company in question as I’m in the UK, but if you’re only needed occasional B&W prints, using a printer and outputting to photographic paper, Fuji Pictograph or whatever, through a printer, is a good idea.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:24:07 GMT, "Donald Link" wrote:

I think some of the black and white laser (not inkjet, but toner) would be a good investment for this purpose. They are so cheap now that a high resolution one can be purchased for less the $200. Save a ton of money over a longer time on cartridge replacements alone. Anyone have thoughts on this?

They’re fine for documents but most are not good for image output. They’re really aimed at business documents. The same applies for colour lasers.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:16:22 -0700, Mitchell Lorens
wrote:

Diann,
He’s pretty much right. Maybe you should obtain another Epson photo printer and dedicate it to those inks. It really takes another dedicated printer to output quality B&W using the Lyson like Hecate says. Mitchell

Thank you, but that’s she 😉

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Wow, a lot of information…..thank you. I liked the suggestion about having a different lab print the occassional print rather than buy a new printer. However, then I get into calibration (color management) yeck!!!! That topic confuses me BIG time.

Clyde, you’re right on the mark when you identified my grainy problem. I had gotten frustrated with the color tones and just set the printer to BLACK ONLY.

Thanks for the color hints in the duotone. I believe I’ve tried Tritone and still had color shifts. What is the actual "number" of the sepia tone you mentioned.

"Clyde Davidson" wrote in message

In article <w8pkb.815552$>,
"D McMillen" wrote:

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this

printer? It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

I use the 870, which is pretty much the same only smaller.
Here is how I make acceptable B&W prints. No, they don’t have the DMAX that the silver gelatin prints have and they don’t look like platinum prints either. OTOH, I usually do better prints this way than I ever did under the enlarger. That does say something about my wet darkroom abilities, but that’s why I use Photoshop.

First, they may look flat because you really don’t have the contrast range to the max. (OK, you may not always want that either.) Make sure the image has as black as you can get it; you have to start right. Getting the whites as much as you can will help, but don’t over do it. The image will never get whiter than the paper.

Grainy happens because you are just using the black ink. ‘Black ink only’ doesn’t make gray except by making a bunch of spaced black dots. Well, these printers don’t do that very well. The trick is to print in color. This will combine the cyan, magenta, and yellow to make grays that are much smoother than with just black ink. However…
Grays made with all 4 colors tend to make grays with odd color tints. These will even be different in different types of lighting. Some papers will do this less than others, but you can’t get rid of it completely. So, give the image the tints that you want.

One of the great things about good B&W photography has been the color of B&W prints. Yes, different papers have added their own tints. Toners for color or preservation have added color to the prints. That color has been used to help the mood and flavor of the image for 150 years. Now, in the digital age, we can do the same and more. In my wet darkroom, I had limited tones that I could use to enhance the feel of the image. Now, I can use any tone I want.

I pick my tones by first converting to Duotone. (Duotone seems to keep the black at their blackest.) Then I select the tint that I want from the list of Pantone colors. Sure you can use RGB, but Pantone colors seem to make it easier for me. I admit that I still tend to pick Sepia, Selinium, and gold-blue tones that fit what I saw in the darkroom. I’m getting a bit better at fine tuning the tone to fit the mood of the image and using more tones.

Using this process, I get very acceptable prints. Are they ready for the walls of the Art Institute in Chicago? Probably not. Then again, many would say that the custom gray ink prints aren’t either. Are they good enough for my clients and my wall? Absolutely. They have been loved by many without any complaints.

Give it a try. You’ll get better than you think.

Clyde

In article <_fZkb.6693$>,
"Donald Link" wrote:

I think some of the black and white laser (not inkjet, but toner) would be a good investment for this purpose. They are so cheap now that a high resolution one can be purchased for less the $200. Save a ton of money over a longer time on cartridge replacements alone. Anyone have thoughts on this?

"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

B&W laser printers still only have black toner. They still have to ‘half tone’ the dots to get the impression of gray. That looks grainy and not too sharp.

Clyde

In article <2S0lb.828859$>,
"D McMillen" wrote:

Wow, a lot of information…..thank you. I liked the suggestion about having a different lab print the occassional print rather than buy a new printer. However, then I get into calibration (color management) yeck!!!! That topic confuses me BIG time.

Clyde, you’re right on the mark when you identified my grainy problem. I had gotten frustrated with the color tones and just set the printer to BLACK ONLY.

Thanks for the color hints in the duotone. I believe I’ve tried Tritone and still had color shifts. What is the actual "number" of the sepia tone you mentioned.

"Clyde Davidson" wrote in message

In article <w8pkb.815552$>,
"D McMillen" wrote:

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this

printer? It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.
Your help would be VERY much appreciated.

Thank you.
Diann

I use the 870, which is pretty much the same only smaller.
Here is how I make acceptable B&W prints. No, they don’t have the DMAX that the silver gelatin prints have and they don’t look like platinum prints either. OTOH, I usually do better prints this way than I ever did under the enlarger. That does say something about my wet darkroom abilities, but that’s why I use Photoshop.

First, they may look flat because you really don’t have the contrast range to the max. (OK, you may not always want that either.) Make sure the image has as black as you can get it; you have to start right. Getting the whites as much as you can will help, but don’t over do it. The image will never get whiter than the paper.

Grainy happens because you are just using the black ink. ‘Black ink only’ doesn’t make gray except by making a bunch of spaced black dots. Well, these printers don’t do that very well. The trick is to print in color. This will combine the cyan, magenta, and yellow to make grays that are much smoother than with just black ink. However…
Grays made with all 4 colors tend to make grays with odd color tints. These will even be different in different types of lighting. Some papers will do this less than others, but you can’t get rid of it completely. So, give the image the tints that you want.

One of the great things about good B&W photography has been the color of B&W prints. Yes, different papers have added their own tints. Toners for color or preservation have added color to the prints. That color has been used to help the mood and flavor of the image for 150 years. Now, in the digital age, we can do the same and more. In my wet darkroom, I had limited tones that I could use to enhance the feel of the image. Now, I can use any tone I want.

I pick my tones by first converting to Duotone. (Duotone seems to keep the black at their blackest.) Then I select the tint that I want from the list of Pantone colors. Sure you can use RGB, but Pantone colors seem to make it easier for me. I admit that I still tend to pick Sepia, Selinium, and gold-blue tones that fit what I saw in the darkroom. I’m getting a bit better at fine tuning the tone to fit the mood of the image and using more tones.

Using this process, I get very acceptable prints. Are they ready for the walls of the Art Institute in Chicago? Probably not. Then again, many would say that the custom gray ink prints aren’t either. Are they good enough for my clients and my wall? Absolutely. They have been loved by many without any complaints.

Give it a try. You’ll get better than you think.

Clyde

Sorry, I don’t have one Pantone color I use. My Sepia will vary depending on the subject. I will even use different levels of light and dark.

Some images feel better with a darker second color and some with a lighter 2nd color. However, it usually works better to use lighter when the image is lighter, etc.

Luckily, Photoshop will preview the duotone colors very well. So, just use what feels right and try a bunch of them.

For example, I have a snow shot on my wall right now that was toned in blue. It’s not like the blue that you get with gold toning. It’s lighter and a tad less magenta. Hey, that’s what worked.

For the record, the Action that came with PS that turns an image into Sepia uses number 30. That’s on the colorizing of the Hue & Saturation. That works pretty well, but I don’t know that I’ve ever stuck to it exactly.

BTW, you may have to ‘tone’ a bit more than you would normally do, if you want no color shifts. I would also try different papers; some may have noticably less shifting on your printers.

Clyde

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:29:18 GMT, "D McMillen" wrote:

Wow, a lot of information…..thank you. I liked the suggestion about having a different lab print the occassional print rather than buy a new printer. However, then I get into calibration (color management) yeck!!!! That topic confuses me BIG time.

In that case, another suggestion. Buy Adobe Photoshop for Photographers by Martin Evening. He has a good handle on the "how to" which is particularly aimed at photographers. You may have to read it through ,more than once, but I guarantee that you won’t be anywhere near as confused about it 😉

Oh, and he tells you how to get the right set up to use outside printers 🙂

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this

printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.

Colors will appear if you print a black and white image with the wrong setting.
Go to printer properties and check Black.You save expensive ink BTW I have the same printer and my black and white prints a grreat. (the grain problem is normal on the D100 at 800 iso)

Stephan

In article <nhSob.13567$>,
"Stephan" wrote:

"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this

printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.

Colors will appear if you print a black and white image with the wrong setting.
Go to printer properties and check Black.You save expensive ink BTW I have the same printer and my black and white prints a grreat. (the grain problem is normal on the D100 at 800 iso)

Stephan

No don’t. Printing with just black ink will make all your grays very grainy. That has nothing to do with the grain of the capture. It has everything to do with the printer not being able to print gray. So, it has to make grays with different spacing of black dots. i.e. It looks like it was made with dots.

Instead, always print with color. However, don’t leave the color of the image just plain B&W. You will get strange and changing colors in different lightings. You need to tone the image the color that you want. After getting the B&W image the way I want it, I change the mode to Duotone. this gives me color inks that fill in the middle grays just fine. The black is still used in the shadows.

The beauty of this that you can tone it any color you like and not be stuck to the few you had in your B&W wet darkroom. I still like sepia and selinium tones, but have some nice variations of those now. I will pick plenty of other tones to match the mood of the image. It’s great.

I like to use Pantone colors for my duotone ‘inks’. It’s easier to pick just on color instead of all the adjustments involved in RGB. However, you can use whatever you like.

BTW, if saving ink cost is your big concern, you are in the wrong hobby.

Clyde

"Clyde Davidson" wrote in message

In article <nhSob.13567$>,
"Stephan" wrote:

"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this

printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.

Colors will appear if you print a black and white image with the wrong setting.
Go to printer properties and check Black.You save expensive ink BTW I have the same printer and my black and white prints a grreat. (the grain problem is normal on the D100 at 800 iso)

Stephan

No don’t. Printing with just black ink will make all your grays very grainy. That has nothing to do with the grain of the capture. It has everything to do with the printer not being able to print gray. So, it has to make grays with different spacing of black dots. i.e. It looks like it was made with dots.

Instead, always print with color. However, don’t leave the color of the image just plain B&W. You will get strange and changing colors in different lightings. You need to tone the image the color that you want. After getting the B&W image the way I want it, I change the mode to Duotone. this gives me color inks that fill in the middle grays just fine. The black is still used in the shadows.

The beauty of this that you can tone it any color you like and not be stuck to the few you had in your B&W wet darkroom. I still like sepia and selinium tones, but have some nice variations of those now. I will pick plenty of other tones to match the mood of the image. It’s great.
I like to use Pantone colors for my duotone ‘inks’. It’s easier to pick just on color instead of all the adjustments involved in RGB. However, you can use whatever you like.

BTW, if saving ink cost is your big concern, you are in the wrong hobby.

Dang! and I thought my images had nice gray tones!
Of course now that you tell me my printer can’t do that I find them all very ugly…

Stephan

In article <FS%pb.25831$>,
"Stephan" wrote:

"Clyde Davidson" wrote in message

In article <nhSob.13567$>,
"Stephan" wrote:

"D McMillen" wrote in message

My setup: Nikon D100 – PS 7.0 – Epson 1280.
Is there anyway to print a good black and white picture off this

printer?

It

always looks flat, grainy, or tinted with some unflatering color.

Colors will appear if you print a black and white image with the wrong setting.
Go to printer properties and check Black.You save expensive ink BTW I have the same printer and my black and white prints a grreat. (the grain problem is normal on the D100 at 800 iso)

Stephan

No don’t. Printing with just black ink will make all your grays very grainy. That has nothing to do with the grain of the capture. It has everything to do with the printer not being able to print gray. So, it has to make grays with different spacing of black dots. i.e. It looks like it was made with dots.

Instead, always print with color. However, don’t leave the color of the image just plain B&W. You will get strange and changing colors in different lightings. You need to tone the image the color that you want. After getting the B&W image the way I want it, I change the mode to Duotone. this gives me color inks that fill in the middle grays just fine. The black is still used in the shadows.

The beauty of this that you can tone it any color you like and not be stuck to the few you had in your B&W wet darkroom. I still like sepia and selinium tones, but have some nice variations of those now. I will pick plenty of other tones to match the mood of the image. It’s great.
I like to use Pantone colors for my duotone ‘inks’. It’s easier to pick just on color instead of all the adjustments involved in RGB. However, you can use whatever you like.

BTW, if saving ink cost is your big concern, you are in the wrong hobby.

Dang! and I thought my images had nice gray tones!
Of course now that you tell me my printer can’t do that I find them all very ugly…

Stephan

Well, did you ever compare the sharpness and clarity of you all black prints to full color prints? Yup, you notice that something is missing.

Clyde