Select and Extract fine detail

"Lycanthrope" wrote in message

Hi,

Ive scanned the Photoshop Groups and havent found a conclusive answer to my problem.

Any help / advice / opinions much appreciated.

Ive got CS3 and think its the best software purchase Ive ever made!!
I consider myself a reasonable user of it, and have many books with tutorials, but for the life of me some things I cant get that Pro result from!

I shoot in a home studio, with coloured backdrops and various lighting options.

The main problem Im having is selecting and extracting fine hair from the background. Ive used the extract tool and channel isolation with mixed results.

What methods do you use and would you kindly help the community?
Many thanks,

Cal.
As you have discovered fine hair is a nightmare to extract realistically, some colours worse than others.
Blond and lighter hair being the worst due to its transparency and ability to pick up colour from coloured backgrounds in particular. ( I have found white backgrounds to be "easier" than coloureds. There is no one way to achieve what you want, more like a collection of techniques, channel masking, extract etc.,
My colleague swears by http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=4 (not cheap)
I have had a lot of success using the following
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov
TWK

This is good info and I agree. Toobi-Won Kenobi has taught you well.

For me it sometimes helps (if the background is a fairly even color) to change the background to a darker color before doing the extract.Then after I’ve done all that I can, I have sometimes resorted to "painting in" additional fine hairs by hand, using the original photo as a guide. Brush color is taken from a sample of the hair from near where the hairs will be painted in. Brush size depends on the photo, but it’s usually only 1 or 2 pixels.

Charley

"Toobi-Won Kenobi" <Toobi-won > wrote in message

"Lycanthrope" wrote in message

Hi,

Ive scanned the Photoshop Groups and havent found a conclusive answer to my problem.

Any help / advice / opinions much appreciated.

Ive got CS3 and think its the best software purchase Ive ever made!!
I consider myself a reasonable user of it, and have many books with tutorials, but for the life of me some things I cant get that Pro result from!

I shoot in a home studio, with coloured backdrops and various lighting options.

The main problem Im having is selecting and extracting fine hair from the background. Ive used the extract tool and channel isolation with mixed results.

What methods do you use and would you kindly help the community?
Many thanks,

Cal.
As you have discovered fine hair is a nightmare to extract realistically, some colours worse than others.
Blond and lighter hair being the worst due to its transparency and ability to pick up colour from coloured backgrounds in particular. ( I have found white backgrounds to be "easier" than coloureds. There is no one way to achieve what you want, more like a collection of techniques, channel masking, extract etc.,
My colleague swears by

http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=4

(not cheap)
I have had a lot of success using the following
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov
TWK

"Charley" wrote in message

This is good info and I agree. Toobi-Won Kenobi has taught you well.

Your words are kind and please me, Charley, may the force be with you.

TWK

For me it sometimes helps (if the background is a fairly even color) to change the background to a darker color before doing the extract.Then after
I’ve done all that I can, I have sometimes resorted to "painting in" additional fine hairs by hand, using the original photo as a guide. Brush color is taken from a sample of the hair from near where the hairs will be painted in. Brush size depends on the photo, but it’s usually only 1 or 2 pixels.

Charley

"Toobi-Won Kenobi" <Toobi-won > wrote in message

"Lycanthrope" wrote in message

Hi,

Ive scanned the Photoshop Groups and havent found a conclusive answer to my problem.

Any help / advice / opinions much appreciated.

Ive got CS3 and think its the best software purchase Ive ever made!!
I consider myself a reasonable user of it, and have many books with tutorials, but for the life of me some things I cant get that Pro result from!

I shoot in a home studio, with coloured backdrops and various lighting options.

The main problem Im having is selecting and extracting fine hair from the background. Ive used the extract tool and channel isolation with mixed results.

What methods do you use and would you kindly help the community?
Many thanks,

Cal.
As you have discovered fine hair is a nightmare to extract realistically, some colours worse than others.
Blond and lighter hair being the worst due to its transparency and ability
to pick up colour from coloured backgrounds in particular. ( I have found white backgrounds to be "easier" than coloureds. There is no one way to achieve what you want, more like a collection of techniques, channel masking, extract etc.,
My colleague swears by

http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=4

(not cheap)
I have had a lot of success using the following
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov
TWK

Many Many thanks for the info.

I have upgraded my backgrounds for shots taken where the client wants me to extract them and put onto other types of background, mostly wacky type shots!

Also invested in Mask Pro software which Im finding very powerful.

Cheers and respect.

Callum (UK)

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:07:23 -0000, "Toobi-Won Kenobi" <Toobi-won

wrote:

"Charley" wrote in message

This is good info and I agree. Toobi-Won Kenobi has taught you well.

Your words are kind and please me, Charley, may the force be with you.
TWK

For me it sometimes helps (if the background is a fairly even color) to change the background to a darker color before doing the extract.Then after
I’ve done all that I can, I have sometimes resorted to "painting in" additional fine hairs by hand, using the original photo as a guide. Brush color is taken from a sample of the hair from near where the hairs will be painted in. Brush size depends on the photo, but it’s usually only 1 or 2 pixels.

Charley

"Toobi-Won Kenobi" <Toobi-won > wrote in message

"Lycanthrope" wrote in message

Hi,

Ive scanned the Photoshop Groups and havent found a conclusive answer to my problem.

Any help / advice / opinions much appreciated.

Ive got CS3 and think its the best software purchase Ive ever made!!
I consider myself a reasonable user of it, and have many books with tutorials, but for the life of me some things I cant get that Pro result from!

I shoot in a home studio, with coloured backdrops and various lighting options.

The main problem Im having is selecting and extracting fine hair from the background. Ive used the extract tool and channel isolation with mixed results.

What methods do you use and would you kindly help the community?
Many thanks,

Cal.
As you have discovered fine hair is a nightmare to extract realistically, some colours worse than others.
Blond and lighter hair being the worst due to its transparency and ability
to pick up colour from coloured backgrounds in particular. ( I have found white backgrounds to be "easier" than coloureds. There is no one way to achieve what you want, more like a collection of techniques, channel masking, extract etc.,
My colleague swears by

http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=4

(not cheap)
I have had a lot of success using the following
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov
TWK

"Lycanthrope" wrote in message

Many Many thanks for the info.

I have upgraded my backgrounds for shots taken where the client wants me to extract them and put onto other types of background, mostly wacky type shots!

Also invested in Mask Pro software which Im finding very powerful.
Cheers and respect.

Callum (UK)

You are most welcome Callum, GTH.

TWK

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:07:23 -0000, "Toobi-Won Kenobi" <Toobi-won

wrote:

"Charley" wrote in message

This is good info and I agree. Toobi-Won Kenobi has taught you well.

Your words are kind and please me, Charley, may the force be with you.
TWK

For me it sometimes helps (if the background is a fairly even color) to change the background to a darker color before doing the extract.Then after
I’ve done all that I can, I have sometimes resorted to "painting in" additional fine hairs by hand, using the original photo as a guide. Brush
color is taken from a sample of the hair from near where the hairs will be
painted in. Brush size depends on the photo, but it’s usually only 1 or 2
pixels.

Charley

"Toobi-Won Kenobi" <Toobi-won > wrote in message

"Lycanthrope" wrote in message

Hi,

Ive scanned the Photoshop Groups and havent found a conclusive answer to my problem.

Any help / advice / opinions much appreciated.

Ive got CS3 and think its the best software purchase Ive ever made!!
I consider myself a reasonable user of it, and have many books with tutorials, but for the life of me some things I cant get that Pro result from!

I shoot in a home studio, with coloured backdrops and various lighting
options.

The main problem Im having is selecting and extracting fine hair from the background. Ive used the extract tool and channel isolation with mixed results.

What methods do you use and would you kindly help the community?
Many thanks,

Cal.
As you have discovered fine hair is a nightmare to extract realistically,
some colours worse than others.
Blond and lighter hair being the worst due to its transparency and ability
to pick up colour from coloured backgrounds in particular. ( I have found
white backgrounds to be "easier" than coloureds. There is no one way to achieve what you want, more like a collection of techniques, channel masking, extract etc.,
My colleague swears by

http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=4

(not cheap)
I have had a lot of success using the following
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov
TWK

Dear Lycanthrope

This is not to say that you don’t need the masking software, because it is very helpful. There are also things you can do in your shooting that will make your PhotoShop life less painful.

This is ALL about getting good clean edges in your images. You said you shoot "home studio, with coloured backdrops and various lighting options". Does this mean you are using classic blue or green screen? If so, I assume you have learned about rim and edge lighting using complimentary colors to the background. If not, there’s a wealth of info on lighting techniques from the TV industry, who daily bring us perfect weathermen with perfect hair, dropped onto the local weather map. Briefly, it’s done using a blue screen background and then hitting the hair light with a yellow gel. This compensates for bleeding of the blue background (blue plus yellow neutrals out) thus cleaning your background bleed. If green screen is used, shoot some magenta at the hair (same deal – green + magenta neutrals out). By doing this you are isolating the background color from your subject. This all equals easier masking. This, along with post processing using some of the above techniques will get you further towards your goal. Also keep in mind that light scatter from your background will muddy up edges of the subject. Thus, the further the subject is from the background, the more coherent (paralell) the light rays thus the cleaner the edges will be. Only other thing I would add is that get good optics – these produce the cleanest/smoothest images, and therefore edges.

Best to you,

Thomas

PS to Lycanthrope.

There is also a professional mask service out there if you are in a time crunch and you have budget

http://www.colorexpertsbd.com/services.html

Thomas