Print with preview different than image using ICC’s

On Sat, 10 May 2008 09:44:44 -0700, wrote:

Hello;

I am using CS2. Suddenly when I print with preview and choose "any" icc profile, I see an off color image. This off color image is printed off color and not what I originally had. It is approximately 1/2 to one stop density lighter (and redder) and the shadows are cyan/blue, instead of neutral black.

If I choose Adobe RGB as the profile and print, the image is close but not correct. This is happening with CS2 and elements 6.
Of course the r1800 is set for ICM and off – no color adjustment.
I have down loaded new profiles, reinstalled my epson r1800, checked for missing files in CS2.

I am running windows XP Home, 2gig memory, dell xps. I have been using this system for over two years without a problem until now.
Does any one know where I can check for the problem and how to correct for it? Thanks

Check your magenta ink.
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

Mike thanks for trying.

The inks are all ok. It prints what I see on the "Print Preview".

The print previewimage is different than the previous one in PPhotoshopwhen I decided to start printing. The preview and the prints also changes as I change ICC’s.

Hi Lloyd,

I’m sorry I can’t help. But Hopefully I can reassure you by saying that I’m having EXACTLY the same problem. I have read over countless website and tutorials ensuring I’m doing the right set procedure and everytime I get the same result, just as you describe it above.

I hope someone can help us!

Regards,

Nick

P.S. I should add that I have an EPSON R1900 (bought just a few days ago)

On Sat, 10 May 2008 09:44:44 -0700, wrote:

Ok, it’s not ink, so I’ll take another shot at this one.

I am using CS2. Suddenly when I print with preview and choose "any" icc profile, I see an off color image. This off color image is printed off color and not what I originally had. It is approximately 1/2 to one stop density lighter (and redder) and the shadows are cyan/blue, instead of neutral black.

I can’t determine whether you mean the print preview dialog’s image, or the preview that is optionally displayed by the Epson driver. The preview shown by the Epson driver (as opposed to the one shown in the CS2 print preview dialog) is misleading. The reason is that the RGB values for the printer are being displayed directly on your monitor. Epsons tend to print a bit on the cool side, so it’s normal for the image to have an overall reddish look to it.

You say two other things that seem ambiguous to me. One is that if you choose "any" icc profile, the colors change. Does this include your monitor profile, and other profiles such as sRGB and Adobe RGB? If they all appear the same, then I would suspect that something is highly out of kilter here – for example that you have ICC enabled in your printer driver settings and are double profiling. The second thing is that the final printed output matches the off color preview image. I have no explanation for this, other than random coincidence.

It’s hard to be definitve, about either of the above points, because I’m not sure which preview image you are referring to.

If I choose Adobe RGB as the profile and print, the image is close but not correct. This is happening with CS2 and elements 6.

Printing to Adobe RGB should produce very subdued colors, yet you are seeing close to normal colors. Again, a puzzle that would cause me to check your printer driver settings. It is very easy to double profile, and with Epson’s this almost always produces a magenta image.

Of course the r1800 is set for ICM and off – no color adjustment.

For Windows, I’m used to the Epson drivers providing you with about four choices, which include a "no color adjustment" choice, manual, PhotoEnhance, and an "ICM" choice. On the Mac, I believe you can select ICM from a pulldown, then disable color adjustment with a separate check box which disables the pulldown. If you could explain this descrepancy that might be helpful.

I have down loaded new profiles, reinstalled my epson r1800, checked for missing files in CS2.

Next step is to reset your prefs – hold down shift, ctrl, alt during startup and say yes when it asks for your first born child.

I am running windows XP Home, 2gig memory, dell xps. I have been using this system for over two years without a problem until now.
Does any one know where I can check for the problem and how to correct for it? Thanks

Read Ian Lyons’s web page on how to set up your color prefs http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps9_colour/ps9_1.htm

After resetting your prefs, and going over your color settings, I would advise you to do a systematic test as follows:

o Set your printer, and photoshop’s working space to sRGB mode o Create a one inch by 8 inch neutral gradient
o Print it, and verify that the gradient is reasonably neutral, and about the right brightness.
o Set your printer to no color correction
o Have Photoshop print using the profile for your printer o If the gradient looks wrong – too dark, or with color casts as you descrive, the problem may be a bad profile. Use Curvemeister’s profile plotter to get an idea of the quality of the profile, whether it has abrupt breaks, etc.
http://curvemeister.com/downloads/profileplotter/dercurvemei sterprofileplotter.zip

If you decide the profile is bad, and cannot find another one, then live with PhotoEnhance mode over sRGB, and specify sRGB as the printer profile in Photoshop. Work that way until you find a better profile. —
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

On Mon, 12 May 2008 21:42:19 -0700, wrote:

PhotoEnhance mode over sRGB,

Should have said: PhotoEnhance mode or sRGB,
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

This is to all the people that have tried to help me. Some of you understood my question, some did not. I want to write my resolution although it does not truly solve my problem but it allows me to print. I have uninstalled CS2 and the Epson print driver. But again, I want to say thanks to all of you who tried to help me.

First, I have been printing for several years. I use Adobe CS2 and Elements 6. I have am using adobe gamma “visual” calibration. Please allow me to say it is close but not exact. All has been going well for several years and my prints are close to my screen. No, not exact, but close enough for me. Suddenly a problem has arisen and I am not able allow Adobe to handle the printing. I must use the Epson R1800 to control the printing. Using this different procedure allows me to get a decent print again.

Here are the steps first allowing Adobe to control the printing (which used to work and does not now work) and then Epson to control the printing. I have spoken to both Adobe and Epson and neither one can explain the problem and “blames the other or just says, tough I can’t help you any more”

A. Previous steps using Photoshop CS2 -Color correct and size an image, and then select Print with preview:

1.First print box in Adobe, Options –
a.Color Handling: let Photoshop determine colors
b.Printer profile : The paper I was using, IE – SPR1800 PrmGlsy PhotoRPM.icc
c.Rendering Intent: either relative colorimetric or perceptual
2.Press print – I believe this is an Epson “print box”
a. Printer Name: Epson R1800
b. press properties
3.Epson R1800 properties box – advanced
a. Select the paper IE Premium Photo Paper Glossy
b. Photo RPM
c. Size as needed
d. Select Print Preview – We’ll talk about this later
e. Color management –
1. ICM
2. off (no color adjustment)
f. Press OK

4.Epson print box – Press OK again with printer turned on
5.Enter Epson Print Preview box.
a. Suddenly I see an off color print Remember this point

B. New steps using Epson to control printing -Color correct and size an image, and then select Print with preview:

1.First print box in Adobe, Options –
a. Color Handling: Let Printer Determine Colors
b. NO print Profile
c. Rendering Intent: either relative colorimetric or perceptual
2.Press print – I believe this is an Epson “print box”
a. Printer Name: Epson R1800
b. press properties
3.Epson R1800 properties box – advanced
a. Select the paper IE Premium Photo Paper Glossy
b. Photo RPM
c. Size as needed
d. Select Print Preview – We’ll talk about this later
e. Color management – Choose ICM
i. Then ICM Mode Advanced
ii. Then click Settings.
1.Input Profile – that of photo used
2.Intent – Your choice
3.Printer Profile – use paper that you are printing on
4.Click OK
f. Now click OK
g. Your are back in Epson “print”
h. Click OK again and you will see a print preview box that looks close to the image in CS2.

I know most of you understand what I am saying. So here is the rhetorical question. Why do I have to change methods? Why using the same image, but a different printing technique (the second where printer controls the printing), does the final print come out almost right (using my eyeball color corrected monitor)? Obviously, something has changed, but I know not what.

Method A results in double profiling because both Photoshop and the print driver are configured to apply the printer profile.

Method B gives valid colors the profile is applied once only, in the printer driver.

Curvemeister: Method A does not result in double profiling; the print driver has ICM set to OFF.

I’d be interested in the details of how the driver can be set to ICM and no color adjustment at the same time. Mac and Windows may be different in this regard. Short of installing the R1800 driver on my system, there is no way for me to check this.

If the ICM portion of the driver setting "takes hold", I’ll stick with my suggestion that there is double profiling.

I have the 2200, and the Windows driver requires you to select ICM in order to turn off printer-driver profiling:
< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1IcsZlXKOqolMYOu76 uFWZfX5hiD0>

OK – Looks like I was wrong. At least the OP has found a combination that works, and maybe someone else can explain wny.

If I read the message correctly, lloyd is seeing the actual profile applied in the Epson Print Preview box when PS controls color, but no profile applied in the Epson Print Preview box when the Epson printer driver controls color. This is a known issue.

You can’t judge your output from Photoshop based on the Epson Print Preview. For example, on my system when I print to the Epson 2200 the Print Preview shows a horribly magenta image. But the actual print matches my screen almost perfectly.

However, if you’re getting a bad image in Print Preview *and* a bad print, then something is obviously wrong. Example A’s workflow appears to be correct. You should get a bad-looking preview – that’s the norm. But you should also get a good print.

Remember, when you print with color management in Photoshop you’re using the Adobe CMM. When you’re printing out of the printer driver you’re using the Microsoft CMM (Heidelberg’s, I think). They approach color management very differently. You will most definitely see different results between them, both on-screen and in the prints.