but it seems impossible
Nothing’s impossible. It just takes a little time.
The pen tool is wonderful for this kind of work. Still, you may want to soften the edges a little bit when you’re done, so instead of a clipping path it might be better to convert the path to a selection and save it as an alpha channel. Then it would be much easier to refine it as you go along (but that’s just my preferred way of working.)
would require hours (if not days) of tweaking
Here’s a mask I spent a couple of days on (reduced size), just as an example:
<
http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1eVI7OsqF3jv6GfyRv 3CnrWeuDE8bN>
Personally, my method is to remove as much of the background as possible using the marquee tool, then I use a larger eraser tool and do a quick run around to get really close to the object. I finish off using a small eraser tool and the polygonal lasso tool if there are straight edges. It seems laborious, but if you don’t waste time trying other options, it is extremely effective.
If it’s a solid white background it should be very easy. I’d start with the Magic Wand and work from there. Any chance you could upload the photo so we can see it?
Freeagent,
Wow. I looked at your image and that’s impressive. But I’m working on a low-budget job and can’t spend a lot of time on fixing the photo.
When you say you use the pen tool, do you mean you draw the path freehand? And I don’t know what you mean about saving the path as an alpha channel. I’m afraid I still don’t know anything about alpha channels (I’ve been avoiding them for years).
Marlene
Bart,
I think I understand what you mean. It would still take a long time because of the very irregular shapes.
Marlene
Ed,
The background is ALMOST solid white. I have to use very low tolerance on the magic wand or it picks up the light areas within the image.
ANd when I use a low enough tolerance to NOT pick up areas within the image, I get a very jagged path — definitely not usable as is. And I’m not very good at the fine-tuning procedure. I haven’t gotten the hang of how to edit paths. There are zillions of points, and I can’t figure out how to get rid of them without breaking the path. And moving hundreds of points to get a smoother path would take forever!
It’s an istockphoto image, so I was reluctant to post it publicly, but it occurred to me that I could "watermark" it so it would be unusable by anyone lurking here with bad intent.
The image is at mallomar [dot] net [slash] modern [slash] money.jpg (like I think that’s fooling the bots!).
istockphoto has a very similar image with a black background, so I would be willing to buy that one if it might be easier to get rid of a black background (via clipping path or any other method). One advantage of an image with a black background is that I wouldn’t have to worry about the soft gray shadow, which I’d also need to get rid of in the image I uploaded.
Marlene
You can get rid of most of the white background by going to Blending Options. Move the right marker to the left a little on "Blend if gray" the top slider (This Layer).
The problem is going to be with the shadows at the base of the pile.
Everybody will have their own ways of doing this, so just take this as one possible way.
What I usually do is use the pen tool for the basic shapes – it’s very good for making smooth curves for one thing. Then, in the paths palette I convert the path to a selection (fly-out menu) and save that selection. That saved selection is your alpha channel.
If you reload that selection and go into Quick-mask mode – that’s the button with a circle on the toolbar – or just type Q – the selection will turn into a colored overlay (you can modify that overlay to your liking by double-clicking the toolbar button).
Now here’s the trick: this quick-mask overlay can be painted on or erased by using black or white brushes. Or you can use any other tool – blur, smudge, whatever. This is where you put in the small details.
Type Q, and the marching ants come back. Save selection, take a break.
The great thing about having a good mask in the form of an alpha channel, is that it’s incredibly flexible. In your case you would just copy-paste it onto whatever background you want. And you can always go back and refine the mask if needed.
I’ll gladly admit that the example I posted took a lot of work. But it was important for the purpose, so I dug in and did it. You may not have time for all that, and there may be quicker ways that will be sufficient for the purpose.
Good luck 🙂
On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:08:57 -0700,
wrote:
Using PS CS3.
I’ve got an RGB photo (it’ll be CMYK eventually) of a pile of money on a white background. I need to make it an object photo so I can drop it on a colored background, but it seems impossible.
I’ve tried creating a clipping path, but the edges are too complicated and there are light areas in the money pile, so I’m getting a very jagged path that would require hours (if not days) of tweaking.
And there are too many points, so the path would be very complex. Is there no way to delete points in a clipping path without breaking the path?
Is there some trick for getting a good clipping path around an irregularly shaped object (that includes some white areas) on a white background?
Would it be easier if I used a similar photo that has a black background, or would I run into the same issues?
TIA,
Marlene
I have seen tutorials demonstrating how to use "find edges" which can be saved as a channel and converted into a path. Sometimes you get better results from that method by doing it within a specific channel (rather than the default RGB channel).
I can’t find it right off-the-bat now. The tutorial may have been on Radiant Vista’s site.
Marlene,
If the Magic Wand is set to Contiguous it will not affect anything inside the outer perimeter of the object <
http://www.mallomar.net/modern/money.jpg> . If you set the Tolerance to something low like 15 you will get a good selection of the background. Inverse (CTRL-I) and Delete. Then the very minor areas that get deleted incorrectly can be painted in with the History Brush.
Don’t avoid Alpha Channels! They are a very important tool and not at all hard to understand. If you can, seek out a copy of the old Channel Chops book. <
http://www.amazon.com/Photoshop-Channel-Chops-David-Biedny/d p/1562057235> Now out of print, but excellent for understanding what Photoshop is all about.
Paul R,
The technique you describe works well, but it will remove some of the very light areas in the money. Hold down Alt to "split" the slider to get more fine control. You will still have to paint in areas that get blown out with the History Brush.
After you make the image Transparent you should make a new transparent layer and Merge the two. This will eliminate the transparent pixels altogether (Ctrl-click on the Layer to see what I’m taking about).
I’d opt for a mask, rather than relying on History states.
What happens if you have to quit before you’re finished?
What if there’s a power outage? And all you’ve saved is some partial work?
I ALWAYS opt to never actually delete anything—as you suggest, Ed—if at all possible, until I save out a final destination copy.
Masks, masks, masks.
Working on a duplicate Layer of course.
Save before doing the work. Mask are great. Either way. Just trying to make it simple. I suppose if there were a power outage you would lose work with History states.
The larger issue with that image, it seems tot me, is not the white background, but the shadow of the pile of money. That will require some special treatment.
Do you know what color the image will be placed over? Are you using a Page Layout program (say yes, please).
Marlene: My method is perfect for an image that simple, you could rip out the background in 10 minutes with an extra five for fauxing the shadow properly. Sooooooo………….
"It seems laborious, but if you don’t waste time trying other options, it is extremely effective." You could have done it already and on a budget.
Yup…I’d mask out the current shadow along with the white background, then create a new one if it was needed. That way I’d have absolute control over the translucency, spread, and color.
Ha! Ten minutes? Waaaaayyy too long.
Well, still way less than it takes to wade through this thread.
The base shadow area might be a good candidate for a "remove white" filter. Don’t know about PCs, but bergdesign makes one for Macs (
http://www.bergdesign.com/plugins/)
I’m sure there is something similar for windows.
There was a freebie plugin kicking about some time back called "Eliminate White" which turned all white areas transparent. Do a google for it. If you can’t find it I will FTP it somewhere.
That said, it’s not a Magic bullet, and still needs judicious masking and stacking up the layers to increase opacity, but it has got me out of a few holes.
Only problem with a pleel off white plugin is that it eliminates all whit not just the white on the outside of the object.
Ed,
There is one: Eliminate White. Possibly useful for the shadow. Not so
much for the image itself. It doesn’t give you any control.<<
I am trying the various suggestions, in no particular order. Thanks for the Eliminate White filter, which I’ve just installed. However, when I restarted Photoshop, I got this scary message:
Adobe Photoshop CS3: Photoshop.exe – Unable to locate Component
This application has failed to start because MSVCRT10.dll was not found. Re-installing the application may fix the problem.
PS did start, however. But I’m looking at the readme for the filter and I’m supposed to "Apply the filter by choosing "Eliminate White" from the Filter > Transparency submenu."
I don’t HAVE a Transparency submenu.
I’m guessing this means the filter isn’t working because I don’t have the MSVCRT10.dll (I searched, including hidden files and system files, and it ain’t showing up.
So I guess I need to find that DLL online and install it?
Marlene
Bart,
Well, still way less than it takes to wade through this thread.<<
ROFL!
Thanks, I needed some comic relief!
Marlene
Sometimes, it’s just better to learn how to do stuff like this using Photoshop’s native tools, especially when you discover roadblocks like this one with the Eliminate White plugin.
The plugin might be useful at times (I use a similar plugin on my Macs) but in this case, the job you need to do can be done easily (if you know how) with Photoshop’s native tools. It might be better for you to knuckle down and learn how in this case…it’ll be a much better use of your time and effort.
Sure, it’ll take some effort—not everything is push-button easy—but learning how will serve your needs forever, and be applicable to a wide array of projects.
Well, I ran out of time. I spent a couple of hours fiddling with various techniques, but my hand isn’t steady or precise enough. I’ve got a Monday a.m. deadline that’s set in concrete, so I’ll have to just rework the design to use the photo with the white background.
But I’m sure I’ll run into the same problem again, and hopefully I’ll have more time to learn new tricks.
Marlene
But I’m sure I’ll run into the same problem again
You most certainly will…and the reason I and Phos and others are advocating a good alpha-channel mask, is that it’s an incredibly powerful tool.
Once you have a good mask, you’re 99% there.
And in my experience, it’s like this: If I need a complex mask and decide to do it, it’s usually done in a few hours if I just go to it.
If I feel lazy and try magic wand, quick selection, extract or anything like that, I usually spend more time just trying to find the right settings – and still end up unhappy with the result.
Magic Wand set at 15 Tolerance (Contiguous) will do the trick nicely on this image. I tried it and it works. The only real problem is the shadow area.
It probably will, Ed, and I must admit I haven’t tried it on this image.
I was just saying that there’s no free lunch, what you get out is usually equal to what you put in. You know that and I know that, but we all see newcomers here who just expect Photoshop to do its magic.
Sometimes hard, tedious work is what it takes, and it’s good to know how.
And if I may add: She posted this on friday with a monday deadline. That’s enough time for just about anything 🙂
While reading this I keep thinking: select all the white and grey; invert and put the notes on a new layer. Fill the background layer with white and give the notes layer a new drop shadow.
I keep thinking if the deadline was that pressing, she could have paid any number of people to do the job for her—just so she could get it out the door—and be provided with the PSD file with instructions about how to create the mask.
Shoot, even a detailed screencast of the job from start-to-finish wouldn’t have been out of the question, so that she could learn from it for future jobs.
Then I keep wondering about how people get relatively simple jobs like this, with actual deadlines, and a boss breathing down their necks and everything, but who lack the skills to get the job done without seeking a whole lot of help in order to first learn a whole new set of skills that are generally considered to be lingua franca in the world of image editing.
But then, maybe Marlene isn’t the person to blame here…maybe it’s the boss who has given the task to someone who wasn’t hired to do this kind of work?
I’ll also add this:
I’m guilty of having fudged a little bit on my skill level to get my foot in the door—both with employers and with clients.
But I learned from one bad experience not to accept jobs where I know there’s no way I’ll be able to quickly upgrade my skills by learning how without tipping my hand and get the job done on time and do it properly, to the satisfaction of the boss or client.
It’s just too nerve-wracking to work that way!
🙂
Marlene,
There are so many ways to extract a subject but the choice of which way and which tools, or combination of tools, menu commands, or techniques are image dependent. I hate to just give a generalized technique for a suggestion and would be better able to advise you if you posted a link to the original image or you could email it to me at Right now, from your description it doesn’t sound like that difficult a process but the image I have in my mind may be totally different than what you are dealing with.
Warmest Regards,
Mama Shan
MamaShan said:"…would be better able to advise you if you posted a link to the original image…"The link is provided in the earlier part of the thread.
And, as I’m sure you know, if you’re going to provide image-specific instructiuons, Shan, it’s best to do so within the confines of this thread—as opposed to providing it via email exchange—so that ALL visitors will benefit.
Marlene…
You can also have a look at a nice compendium of element-isolation techniques, gathered together at the following link.
Bookmark it, because it leads to TONS of good material:
<
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?128@@.3bb80e5d>
Shan
She posted a link.
Nobody reads post #6! B)
Thanks I missed the image link, of course!
Oh well, the image link did not work.
Still working here but you have to transcribe it. Since Marlene took so much trouble to disguise it I won’t post it here in the forum.
" Oh well, the image link did not work. "
Sure it does, except that Marlene needlessly obfuscated it in her post. Then, Ed made it clickable in his.
<
http://www.mallomar.net/modern/money.jpg>
I just checked—it’s still there.
Doctor Phos prescribes more coffee and a brisk walk around the back 40!
🙂
I think it would have been easier to mask on a blue screen. As is, just use the magic wand for a rough selection and add a mask. Clean up and continue with hard edge brushes on the mask. Don’t know if it will help but here’s a link to the psd file with the mask. You can copy the mask/selection to your version if they are the same canvas size.
Sometimes stock agencies have images like this on white but they also include either a clipping path or alpha channel when you purchase the hires image.
Anyway here’s the link for the image with mask:
<
http://www.photoshopmama.net/money.zip>
shan,
That looks fabulous! If you could tell me how to copy the mask to my version (same size), I would be the happiest girl on the block.
Just to clarify my situation for everyone (and explain why I couldn’t get this done myself in the time I had), I neglected to mention in my first post that I am currently working two jobs (I’m temporarily filling in for a sick friend) and taking care of my ancient sick mother. (And I’m not feeling too good myself.)
So it’s really nobody’s fault I was in this pickle. It was just a perfect storm of work and other crises.
Consequently, I am kind of overwhelmed at the moment. It did occur to me to try to hire someone to do the photo manipulation for me, but I had no idea where to look. I probably should have asked here.
shan, I am very willing to pay you for your time. If I can just get the mask into my un-"watermarked" photo, my problem should be solved.
Thanks to everyone who offered help.
Marlene
Hold Shift and Drag your original into the psd file. Then, If you have CS3, you can simply hold down the alt key while dragging the existing mask to the original layer you dragged in. You’ll get a popup dialog asking if you want to use this mask (or something like that) and just click yes. This will apply a duplicate mask to your layer. Then just drag my layer and the color fill layer to the trash.
Shan,
Thank you too much! The project went to press this morning, and it looks like a million bucks (pun intended).
Marlene
And here’s what I got using the Quick Selection Tool to ensure the shadows stayed with the background, with just a little bit of additional trimming; then jumped it up to a new level. I bumped the background up to layer 0, set its blending mode to multiply, and then added a color fill layer and a gradient map layer below it, with layer 0’s blending mode set to lighten.
<
http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1ut0BufLv8A8F1KXRg BeljXqDky4Y0>
