BEWARE OF ADOBE’S NEW COPY PROTECTION SOFTWARE – IT CAN SERIOUSLY HARM YOUR COMPUTER

BC
Posted By
Basil_Crowley
Oct 14, 2008
Views
3501
Replies
178
Status
Closed
Beware of Adobe’s new copy protection software – it can seriously harm your computer!

The FlexNet licensing software that is installed on your computer along with CS3 and CS4, and possibly other, products has the capacity to seriously harm your system. It seems that it relies on some sort of insidious rootkit technology, which hides files on your hard drive. The trouble is that it is not robust and, if it gets broken, has the capacity to render your computer unusable by any product that uses this technology unless and until the hard drive is completely reformatted and everything properly reinstalled. Given that we all pay good money to prevent this doomsday scenario occurring in our computers, this should be unacceptable.

In particular, anyone who thinks that they can rely on disk imaging technology as a means of backing up or migrating system drives containing installations of Adobe CS3/4 should think again. Adobe’s new software and activation technology does not support disk cloning, and the result of using it is likely to render your computer permanently unusable, at least by Adobe products.

I know this because it has happened to me. My computer completely freezes suddenly anytime during or after running CS3. After spending some time investigating the problem, Adobe came up with the following astonishing response:

"We have gone through all the material and logs once again, and came to the conclusion, the problem was in fact caused by cloning your hard drive. What happened is, that the FlexNet service, the service responsible for the activation and licensing of the product, has been damaged. Cloning our products is not supported by our products, and was therefore not tested either. The problem is, there are leftovers of the last Photoshop. installation’s FlexNet files present in your system. To make matters worse, these files are well hidden, to protect our programs from piracy. Therefore, they can’t be removed. Since a deactivation and reinstallation were already done to no avail, the only thing that’s left to do, is a complete reformatting of your harddrive. We are very sorry to have to tell you this, but it really is the only option left. Kind regards,
Adobe Technical Support"

Needless to say I am hopping mad! The implication that the problem is somehow my fault for daring to clone my hard drives is absurd! Disk imaging is a perfectly legitimate way of backing up and restoring or migrating hard drives and what they seem to be saying is that disk imaging as a backup & restore solution does not work with Adobe and Macromedia products. If this is so, a warning to this effect should be writ large on all of them.

To top it all, Adobe’s abdication of responsibility shows a blatant disregard for their paying customers. They have rolled out a technology that, by their own admission, has not been fully tested and which has the potential to inflict irrevocable harm on their customers’ computer systems as a result. (Even Microsoft would not dare to try to get away with such a thing!) They have done this to protect their software from piracy and thus to protect their revenue stream. Fine, but they should do this at their own expense, not at the expense of their loyal paying customers, and, when things do go wrong, they should be willing and able to provide a fix. If Adobe lose these paying customers, the piracy issue becomes irrelevant! (If you ask me, a far more elegant solution to the piracy problem would be to lower the price of the software, which is absurdly over-priced, certainly here in the UK.)

As a loyal customer and user of Photoshop virtually from day one, I do expect better than this. For the first time since I took up digital photography, I am looking for a different photo editing solution. I certainly do not think that any more of my hard earned cash will be heading in Adobe’s direction, at least until this is sorted out.

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H
Ho
Oct 14, 2008
This is completely unacceptable. I Ghost my HD on a monthly basis to guard against untimely meltdowns, which, if they occur at the wrong time, could cost me a lot of money.

Given that the source of this income is work that almost always involves the use of Adobe software, the notion that I could, for any number of reasons, restore a Ghost image and thereby render my computer unusable (especially if it affects *only* Adobe products) is absurd.

Clients, at least the ones that pay a premium, don’t want excuses. They want you to deliver what you promised *when* you promised.

Looks like I may stick with CS2 after all.
CF
chris_farrell
Oct 14, 2008
So have you installed CS4?
H
Ho
Oct 14, 2008
No.
CF
chris_farrell
Oct 14, 2008
So have you installed CS4?

@Basil
M
Mylenium
Oct 14, 2008
I’m not sure what the fuss is all about, frankly. True, it’s a pain in the butt if and when it happens, but really – it hits one system in a few thousand and certainly does not occur on a daily basis. Beyond that, it’s beside the point – you can’t exactly hold Adobe responsible for a third-party technology they have no control over, either.

Mylenium
JT
John_T_Smith
Oct 14, 2008
I Ghost my HD

I tried Norton Ghost once… had problems (not with Adobe)… and found what is, for me, a better product

The imaging software I use runs completely independent of Windoze, with a version that runs from a DOS boot disk or a version that runs on it’s own version of Linux (the Linux version will create a custom boot CD)

Either version will span a backup across multiple CD/DVD discs, or to an extra internal or an external USB hard drive

I use drive swap housings and have FOUR boot drives, which I rotate every time I add or remove software, so my most recent working drive is in a drawer before I install anything new onto a boot drive which I have just cloned off of that recent drive

I have had ZERO problems with this imaging software, and that includes having several CS3 products installed

Dos version runs off a 3.5 inch boot disk
<http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-dos.htm>

Linux version creates a bootable CD, use if you have a USB mouse or keyboard <http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux.htm>
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 14, 2008
It is possible that cloning will work for some, maybe, for example, if done between identical disks. Adobe are saying that they do not guarantee that it will; and sometimes it won’t.

However that is beside the point. Microsoft, bless their socks, have gone to great lengths to produce an operating system, which, for all its faults, is robust. If something gets broken, it will, 9 times out of 10 repair itself, and what remains is always fixable, once the problem is identified. It is amazing just how much abuse XP can take and still function.

Now Adobe has come along and done something that negates all of that. They have introduced a technology, that, once broken, cannot be fixed. That goes against the principles that everyone else has been working towards.

At the moment, few people may be affected (maybe more than Adobe care to admit to, and perhaps some who do not yet know that they are) but software users need to be wary of the thin end of the wedge. If all software vendors did similar things and played fast and loose with the basic fabric of the operating and file systems, all computers would soon be reduced to piles of junk.

That is why it is wrong.

Until Microsoft themselves support 3rd party product licensing and activation within the operating system, Adobe should hold off on this.
H
Ho
Oct 14, 2008
John,

I’ve used Ghost since it was owned by Binary Research (or whatever it was, pre Norton), and I’ve never had an issue with it. I still have a version that boots from DOS and I use it every so often as a fail safe backup in addition to my regular backups.

However, I do use Ghost to restore an image at least 3 or 4 times a year just for hygiene purposes, regardless of whether I’m having issues or not. I guess I’ll wait and see what others report before I jump to CS4.
LP
Lynda_Pasquire
Oct 14, 2008
I have got CS2 and will definitely not be upgrading until they sort this out. I had to clone my hard drive recently and Photoshop has since been working fine, thank goodness. (CS2 does not use FlexNet) I also take regular images of my drive as back-ups, so if I had CS3/4 then I would not be able to rely on them

Adobe have used inappropriate technology and from what I understand, they will only recommend that you re-install your system from scratch if you get a problem with their licensing software – which is, by any definition, malware!

We pay more than enough to own Photoshop and pay even more to keep it up to date – Punish the Pirates, I say, not us, the honest users!
MM
Mike_Morrell
Oct 14, 2008
Hard drives fail and good backup plans are a must for operations large and small. Anyone mass-producing software should be testing it using (at least) the most widely used backup and recovery means by its customer base. To state that they simply do not support restoring an OS drive w/o a reinstalling of the software is simply astonishing. Its a good thing that adobe products are not typically used in the medical or financial services industries.
BL
Bob Levine
Oct 14, 2008
How many times have we seen post from people that have been given incorrect info from Adobe CS? I’m not saying that this is the case here, just that I don’t think everyone should be jumping the gun without confirming it.

Bob
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 14, 2008
Dear Bob,

Do you know any different?

I have been both very patient and insistent with Adobe. They have indeed confirmed their position and are adamant that a reformat and system reinstall are necessary to fix the problem on my computer caused by cloning the hard drive. They are standing by what is said in the quote above. (However, I have got an impression that there may be a fix, but they won’t tell me what it is, in case I tell the pirates!)

If, you or anyone else, know how the problem can be fixed without going to all this trouble, I will be the first to rejoice, and we can also all sleep well at night knowing that Photoshop will continue to work even after a disaster recovery.

I am only going by what Adobe tech support are telling me. What else can I do?

Please tell me they are wrong!
RM
Rob_Miller
Oct 14, 2008
I find it funny that this thread resurfaces for every major new product release from Adobe. They’ve been doing activation for what, three releases now? I’ve never had a problem with it and have backed it up fine, usually it just requires reactivation.

Technically, the point behind activation is to prevent the software from being cloned to other PCs and remain activated. Sounds to me like the activation is doing it’s job.

These FUD posts do nothing to help anyone other than freak people out who might not otherwise experience the problems noted within.
JJ
Jim_Jordan
Oct 14, 2008
There are three possible solutions to the perceived problem that one can try.

1) Buy the version of Photoshop that does not require activation (aka: a site license)

2) Use a disk clone app that does a complete clone of every section of the hard drive. (apparently some here have experience with such)

3) Run the activated version of Photoshop in a virtual machine. The activation data should be written to the easily archived VM disk image file.
DC
David_C_Parsons
Oct 14, 2008
I use Acronis to both back up and to clone my hard drive. I recently built a new desktop and cloned my current hard drive and restored it to the new one. Worked like a charm. I don’t remember having to re-activate Photoshop but I did Acrobat.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 14, 2008
This only affects CS3 and later. Earlier versions of CS used different activation software.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 14, 2008
caused by cloning the hard drive.

others have reported success, maybe you’re just doing it wrong.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 14, 2008
That a system can be cloned to a new HD and new desktop w/o activation is perplexing, as activation, as I understand it, takes a "picture" of your hardware, and requires re-activation when it detects changes.

Otherwise, cloning would be a perfect pirating tool, seems to me.
H
Ho
Oct 14, 2008
On an NT based OS, cloning only works when the controllers and chipsets are identical. So, activation parameters notwithstanding, moving software from one computer to another is problematic if the machines are not virtually the same. The OS won’t permit it.

Yeah, there are workarounds but most folks wouldn’t bother.
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 14, 2008
I couldn’t make out amid all the verbosity if the OP had de-activated prior to cloning. That’s what I would do.
R
Rick
Oct 14, 2008
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 07:11:12 -0700,
wrote:

Beware of Adobe’s new copy protection software – it can seriously harm your computer!
The FlexNet licensing software that is installed on your computer along with CS3 and CS4, and possibly other, products has the capacity to seriously harm your system. It seems that it relies on some sort of insidious rootkit technology, which hides files on your hard drive. The trouble is that it is not robust and, if it gets broken, has the capacity to render your computer unusable by any product that uses this technology unless and until the hard drive is completely reformatted and everything properly reinstalled. Given that we all pay good money to prevent this doomsday scenario occurring in our computers, this should be unacceptable.

In particular, anyone who thinks that they can rely on disk imaging technology as a means of backing up or migrating system drives containing installations of Adobe CS3/4 should think again. Adobe’s new software and activation technology does not support disk cloning, and the result of using it is likely to render your computer permanently unusable, at least by Adobe products.

I know this because it has happened to me. My computer completely freezes suddenly anytime during or after running CS3. After spending some time investigating the problem, Adobe came up with the following astonishing response:

"We have gone through all the material and logs once again, and came to the conclusion, the problem was in fact caused by cloning your hard drive. What happened is, that the FlexNet service, the service responsible for the activation and licensing of the product, has been damaged. Cloning our products is not supported by our products, and was therefore not tested either. The problem is, there are leftovers of the last Photoshop. installation’s FlexNet files present in your system. To make matters worse, these files are well hidden, to protect our programs from piracy. Therefore, they can’t be removed. Since a deactivation and reinstallation were already done to no avail, the only thing that’s left to do, is a complete reformatting of your harddrive. We are very sorry to have to tell you this, but it really is the only option left. Kind regards,
Adobe Technical Support"

Needless to say I am hopping mad! The implication that the problem is somehow my fault for daring to clone my hard drives is absurd! Disk imaging is a perfectly legitimate way of backing up and restoring or migrating hard drives and what they seem to be saying is that disk imaging as a backup & restore solution does not work with Adobe and Macromedia products. If this is so, a warning to this effect should be writ large on all of them.

To top it all, Adobe’s abdication of responsibility shows a blatant disregard for their paying customers. They have rolled out a technology that, by their own admission, has not been fully tested and which has the potential to inflict irrevocable harm on their customers’ computer systems as a result. (Even Microsoft would not dare to try to get away with such a thing!) They have done this to protect their software from piracy and thus to protect their revenue stream. Fine, but they should do this at their own expense, not at the expense of their loyal paying customers, and, when things do go wrong, they should be willing and able to provide a fix. If Adobe lose these paying customers, the piracy issue becomes irrelevant! (If you ask me, a far more elegant solution to the piracy problem would be to lower the price of the software, which is absurdly over-priced, certainly here in the UK.)

As a loyal customer and user of Photoshop virtually from day one, I do expect better than this. For the first time since I took up digital photography, I am looking for a different photo editing solution. I certainly do not think that any more of my hard earned cash will be heading in Adobe’s direction, at least until this is sorted out.

OP – Can you elaborate on the exact problem here.

Are you saying all you did was a disk image to a new drive and that was all and after that Photoshop would not work on the new drive and the problem cannot be corrected?.
i.e. you didnt try to uninstall/reinstall photoshop or upgrade etc after you had done the image?
R
Rick
Oct 14, 2008
On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:04:23 -0700, Bob Levine wrote:

How many times have we seen post from people that have been given incorrect info from Adobe CS? I’m not saying that this is the case here, just that I don’t think everyone should be jumping the gun without confirming it.

Bob

Err very few. How many specific and detailed written statements like this one have you seen from Adobe Systens Inc this year which are incorrect?

"We have gone through all the material and logs once again, and came to
the conclusion, the problem was in fact caused by cloning your hard drive.
What happened is, that the FlexNet service, the service responsible for
the activation and licensing of the product, has been damaged. Cloning our
products is not supported by our products, and was therefore not tested
either. The problem is, there are leftovers of the last Photoshop. installation’s
FlexNet files present in your system. To make matters worse, these files
are well hidden, to protect our programs from piracy. Therefore, they can’t
be removed. Since a deactivation and reinstallation were already done to
no avail, the only thing that’s left to do, is a complete reformatting of
your harddrive. We are very sorry to have to tell you this, but it really
is the only option left. Kind regards,
Adobe Technical Support"
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 14, 2008
so long as you can reconfigure the drivers, one can move from platform to platform, and then re-activation will be called for.
B
Buko
Oct 14, 2008
Just so everyone has another perspective.

I use a Mac and have been cloning my System hard drive so I can have a test drive. the cloned drive is viewed by Adobe as a second activation but other than that there are no issues. The situation may be drastically different with MS in the picture, but this sounds more like chicken little crying the sky is falling.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 14, 2008
If it works (worked) for you, that’s just dandy. All I know is that it didn’t work for me, and Adobe’s response has been less than satisfactory.

Improvised copy protection technology like this is invariably at some risk or loss to the honest user, which is one reason why it is so reviled.

You have been warned.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 14, 2008
all the "copy protection" does is inconvenience legal purchasers. pirates could care less. they’re going to get it anyway. AND adobe don’t care that they cheesed off yet another long time customer. they know you and millions of others will buy it anyway. we’re suckers. face it.
B
Buko
Oct 14, 2008
You have been warned.

the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
the sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!

HALP! TEH SKY IZ FALLIN!

there, fixed that for ya. 🙂
B
Buko
Oct 15, 2008
tHanX!
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 15, 2008
BTW I bet with in 24 hours of the release of CS4 it will be cracked or a key generator made for it.

Catch up Robert!
N
nospam
Oct 15, 2008
"Ho" <hpowen@*nospam*operamail.com> wrote in message
On an NT based OS, cloning only works when the controllers and chipsets are identical. So, activation parameters notwithstanding,
moving software from one computer to another is problematic if the machines are not virtually the same. The OS won’t permit it.
Yeah, there are workarounds but most folks wouldn’t bother.

Matching platforms is assumed in most cloning situations.

If "FlexNet" is similar to Adobe’s (actually Macrovision’s) past copy protection scheme, use DiskProbe or similar utility to look at your hard disk’s first 64 absolute sectors, immediately before, and after, installation of CS4. Compare. If you see one or more reserved sectors are different, it’s a disk signature.

Reserved sectors are not copied in most cloning software, unless certain parameters are used (e.g. "forensic mode" in Ghost). This might account for why cloning CS4 works for some people but not for others.
RB
Robert_Barnett
Oct 15, 2008
Is it really so difficult to deactive the software and then just reinstall it? Have we really gotten so lazy that we can’t even install the software we use.

While I think copy protection of any kind is a joke and a waste of time, the fact remains the companies don’t and it is there. Deal with it and stop whining. Or go for the GIMP or something.

BTW I bet with in 24 hours of the release of CS4 it will be cracked or a key generator made for it. If man or woman can make it man or woman can break it. This is why copy protection is a waste of time and a big old joke.

Robert
LP
Lynda_Pasquire
Oct 15, 2008
It seems to me there are a few Adobe TechSupport Bods who are promoting the party line in the foregoing threads. I still have not been able to get through to customer service on an issue – the music on hold was delightful but I can’t afford the time to hang on for an hour to speak to someone who has no authority to do anything as I found out. "We sell software and you install it at your own risk" is the message that Adobe give out.

If Adobe said clearly on the box to uninstall software before copying the hard drive they might be excused. However, all those people who have copied a drive with CS3 on it will only find they have a problem when they come to reinstate that copy, should it become necessary. It is still not clear whether FLEXNET is uninstalled completely if you deactivate the software – I suspect not. What else might it be spying on for Adobe? Did they use FLEXNET in the Beta version?
B
Buko
Oct 15, 2008
Help the sky is falling again!!!!!!

If you guys can’t clone your drives using Windows then ya’ll need Macs. Quit cher whinin’ and buy the hardware that will work the way you want.

Although I must add that I believe most of these problems are most likely PEBKAK.
P
Phosphor
Oct 15, 2008
"It seems to me there are a few Adobe TechSupport Bods who are promoting the party line in the foregoing threads."

Huh? What?

Ain’t nobody here but just us other users. No Adobe employees have weighed in on the issue in these forums.
M
Mylenium
Oct 15, 2008
Did they use FLEXNET in the Beta version?

Well, guess why then you are even able to buy Photoshop CS4 since yesterday…? 😐 Of course the prerelease software uses the same mechanisms (which would also be clear, if any of you had participated in the Dreamweaver or Lightroom public Betas) and is tested this way. And forgive me for saying this, you don’t know dime about these things, so I can only urge you to not further "enrich" this thread by adding more hot air about a fluff issue. Being the advocate of evil I could just as well say: "Well, then get a proper cloning software. If your product is to stupid to copy hidden sectors while keeping the checksums intact, then it mustn’t be that good." You see, this can be twisted and turned in any way one sees fit, and threads like this are going _nowhere_.

Mylenium
B
Buko
Oct 15, 2008
Mylenium, nicely put.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
. Being the advocate of evil I could just as well say

I KNEW i recognized that dude! 🙂
B
Buko
Oct 15, 2008
double post
B
Buko
Oct 15, 2008
Y’all know that the Gubment is waching us threw r TV sets and our computrs don’t u? even wen thay ar turned off. Thats Y U must cover them with tin foil wen U R not using them.

Don’t furgit to were ur tinfoil hat to stop them from reedin’ ur mind to.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 15, 2008
Now who is being unhelpful?

Isn’t it just as reasonable to expect that all software should be resilient enough to allow any file to be replaced, should it become damaged, without having to reformat the whole damned disk?

…or are we to conclude that there are hidden files and that once damaged, they cannot be fixed?

…. and that some cloning software may not copy them properly.

To have to resort to a reformat and full reinstall of Windows and years’ worth other software, is hardly a "fluff issue"!

For me, the sky did indeed fall in. So if you guys, who clearly have more than a casual interest in defending Adobe, want to be helpful, please either provide a workable fix, or do something to make sure it cannot happen again to me or anyone else, or preferably do both.
M
Mylenium
Oct 15, 2008
Isn’t it just as reasonable to expect that all software should be resilient enough to allow any file to be replaced, should it become >damaged, without having to reformat the whole damned disk?

..or are we to conclude that there are hidden files and that once damaged, they cannot be fixed?

… and that some cloning software may not copy them properly.

Well, then allow me to be blunt: Then why at all are you using Photoshop (or any other software that uses any system of copy protection for that matter) instead of drawing your images on fine grid paper and calculating each cell’s position and color with a TI scientific calculator? As I said two times already: The whole discussion is utterly and completely pointless. Use it or loose it. There can be no ambiguities in the matter.

If you, as you claim, really were that concerned, you should have switched to Corel PSP or similar products long ago. But since you haven’t, I can only assume that Photoshop (and other tools) offer enough advantages over their competitors to justify higher prices, going through lengthy install procedures and having to deal with activation. So where does that leave us?

Don’t get me wrong: On a more generic level I understand you, but you are complaining about a non-issue. Anyone having to deal with much more complex issues like using floating license servers for MentalRay, Renderman, Maya or other 3D programs in a heterogenous environment or people who need to run 5 dongled programs with 5 different incompatible port drivers could tell you much more severe stories, be it for these things not even working after a full re-install or the companies not even providing "qualified" e-Mail or phone support. You know, 2 months ago we got new Avid systems and guess what – it took the techs 3 days to patch the dongles so they accept the new serials. And those guys do this regularly! So for what it’s worth: Things are by no means as perfect as they seem elsewhere, too.

Trust me, the Adobe devs, I and many other people involved with the development process are trying to make the end-user experience as good for you as we can, but there are simply limits to how deeply we can influence some matters. Licensing third-party code to manage copy protection or getting such lovable features as actually being able to output MPEG video from After Effects are such things. They may change at one point, they may not. It’s just that ranting on forums, least of all the original vendor’s ones, isn’t helping, either.

Mylenium
M
Mylenium
Oct 15, 2008
I KNEW i recognized that dude!

Dave, please behave. Read this article here <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b6bec2> and then tell me, how many points you would think you could score if and when the same stuff is rolled into the forum mechanism. There’s nothing wrong with having a bad day, but admittedly my tolerance level for you is becoming lower with every of your posts, so take it back a notch, if you can. We all appreciate your input, we just prefer you wouldn’t always deliver it with extra decoration.

Mylenium
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
Dave, please behave.

sorry. no can do.

how many points you would think you could score if and when the same stuff is rolled into the forum mechanism.

on a guess? more than 95% of the posters here. i recon there’s only about a dozen of us, give or take a few, who genuinely try to help here on a daily basis. why? because we enjoy helping and this is the best place to learn photoshop from the pros who use it every day. and all i know is that when i go on vacation or get sick and don’t show up for a while, when i come back, there are lots and lots of threads that go unanswered with no help at all and no posts in em except the starters.

There’s nothing wrong with having a bad day,

if you’re having a bad day, maybe you should step away from the keyboard before hitting "Post Message".

but admittedly my tolerance level for you is becoming lower with every of your posts

tough, bud. you don’t like it don’t read me.

jeez man. lighten up. if we can’t laugh at ourselves we’re hopeless. i post a lot of stuff tongue in cheek and i try to keep things very light. most of the regulars here know that. you didn’t come across as hopeless to me when you first started posting here. in fact i quite enjoy some of your posts and the fact that finally another techie like me had shown up, thinking we could solve a lot of problems together. but i’ve been wrong before. and i’ve been helping people here for a long time. most of those people are quite happy with the way i deal with them. especially when their problem is resolved.

my "rants", as you called em elsewhere, well, everyone’s got pet peeves. my main ones are DRM and privacy rights. so if you see a post on those issues, know i’ll likely chime in, and if you wish, you can avoid those topics.

so thanks for the advice. i appreciate knowing where you stand.

dave
F
Freeagent
Oct 15, 2008
Mylenium,

I’m a great admirer of your to-the point and very informative contributions, but don’t pick on Dave. He has a wonderfully wicked – or is that wickedly wonderful – sense of humour that livens up this forum. He knows a thing or two about computers, too.
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 15, 2008
Yeah, don’t pick on Dave, that’s my job!
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
He knows a thing or two about computers, too.

nah. i just fake it.

😉
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
Yeah, don’t pick on Dave, that’s my job!

I do need you to keep me in line sometimes! 🙂
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Oct 15, 2008
Yeah, don’t pick on Dave, that’s my job!

What?!? I thought we had equal rights here!

R 😉 b
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 15, 2008
Mylenium, unless I misunderstood you, your philosophy seems to be that, if things could be a lot worse, there is no reason to make them better. Mmmm…

That software licensing and copy protection is something that may be beyond the control of Photoshop developers is a fair point, but that is not my problem. Issues arising from it should still be addressed by someone in Adobe. Indeed you should be supporting us in ensuring that they are.

CS is consumer software, and should not need computer techies to manage it. Its users should never have to face the problems with commercial software you allude to, but Adobe has started down a road where one day they just might.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
but Adobe has started down a road where one day they just might.

my point in post #24 is that we’ve been down this road before, starting with version cs. they don’t care. really.

(ok, big heartless corporations is another pet peeve!)
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
in fact we’ve been told point blank by adobe engineers "i’m not putting naked bits out into the world anymore. end of story."
M
Mylenium
Oct 15, 2008
Mylenium, unless I misunderstood you, your philosophy seems to be that, if things could be a lot worse, there is no reason to make them better. Mmmm…

Nope, I think you misunderstand that. I just have different priorities. Dealing with such trivial matters doesn’t really bake my noodle, as they say. I’d rather see progress in the programs themselves. In my view the issue discussed here is a lot of noise about nothing, considering that most people only install a software once throughout the lifecycle of their computer and are perfectly happy. Ultimately it becomes a question whether Adobe should fire X million at developing new licensing mechanisms or just spend a fraction of those millions by advising those 3 out of 10000 users on their phone lines. Simple business math on some level, for sure. And let’s not kid ourselves: This is a Windows forum to begin with, so we all have much worse stuff to deal with everyday and have the scars to prove it.

Mylenium
M
Mylenium
Oct 15, 2008
ok, big heartless corporations is another pet peeve!

Don’t get started on this one. There are too many people still believing Apple are the savior of the universe… 😉 Anyway, regarding your humor: Sorry, I don’t see it. It’s either the language barrier or my not having been around long enough in these parts, but you come across as extremely cynical, not even sarcastic. Your comments lack that bit subtlety that would make them amusing and they are very "obvious". The others do think you’re an okay guy, though, so I shall therefore try to not comment on your posts any further and leave it to them before we end up hugging and telling each other how much we love us :o]. Maybe we can work this out some day. I’ll take the quiet exit from this thread, as it has already gone too far in many ways.

Mylenium
N
nospam
Oct 15, 2008
wrote in message
Mylenium, unless I misunderstood you, your philosophy seems to be that, if things could be a lot worse, there is no reason to make
them better. Mmmm…
That software licensing and copy protection is something that may be beyond the control of Photoshop developers is a fair point,
but that is not my problem. Issues arising from it should still be addressed by someone in Adobe. Indeed you should be supporting us
in ensuring that they are.
CS is consumer software, and should not need computer techies to manage it. Its users should never have to face the problems with
commercial software you allude to, but Adobe has started down a road where one day they just might.

This copy protection nonsense is a sure sign that Adobe is headed for demise. Like Lotus, Novell and a thousand other greedy developers before them.
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 15, 2008
Mylenium

You are so wrong mate!

Why don’t you listen to the old hands?

You want to fit in? Don’t knock the regulars.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 15, 2008
I can’t agree that this is a trivial matter. Adobe has declared war on the pirates, which is fair doos, but it is us users who are getting caught in the crossfire. As long as you are aware of that.

On a more practical level, can someone please advise on the proper way to clone a disk with an installation of CS3+ on it? The engineer I paid to clone my disks used O&O, which he reckoned to be one of the best. I don’t know what went wrong there. It is possible that CS3 was already broken, as the system was staggering a bit due to running out of disk space.

For my backups, I use Macrium Reflect. This offers two backup modes: Intelligent, which copies only sectors used by the filesystem, leaving behind the page file and hibernation files; and Exact Copy which clones everthing. The last is slow and presumably results in a huge backup file that is mostly full of junk. So does anybody know if Intelligent Copy should work? Presumably the licensing files are not so hidden that NTFS can’t see them.

Also, are there any other procedural matters? Would it have been better to deactivate and uninstall CS3 first and then reinstall it on the new disk, or would this have made no difference?
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 15, 2008
Hmmmm, Myles Under a Rock, sounds like a movie.
B
Buko
Oct 15, 2008
Basil if you feel so strongly about it please contact Adobe and talk to them. Crying about the sky falling to other users is pretty pointless especially when the majority of other users don’t have the problems you are having.
J
jcates
Oct 15, 2008
we just prefer…

We…? *ahem* I’m gonna have to echo a lot of other people here and type support for Dave on this one.

support for Dave

This thread got out of hand some time ago, and after the point/counterpoints were made. When that happens, the thread, no matter what it is, tends to devolve to OT chatter for the rest of the day. That’s just who these people are, and I count myself among them… just not as skilled with the software as most. 🙂

Myle, lighten up a bit and you’ll be fine.
H
Ho
Oct 15, 2008
Seems like some people with legitimate issues are being gang-banged by people with nothing better to do or anything useful to contribute.

All this sky-is-falling crap is a wee bit inflammatory. Just because YOU aren’t having a problem doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist. And I *know* if Adobe had just told me to reformat my HD and reinstall everything while being oh so sorry about my luck, well, you might be able to spout the chicken little nonsense to me over the Internet, but don’t try saying it to my face.

Damn! I’m all pissed off over this and it’s not even my problem. I must need my meds adjusted.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
but you come across as extremely cynical, not even sarcastic

i’m sorry. don’t mean to be. cynical? ya, a little. but with a bit of self-deprecating humo(u)r about it. i’m always learning. maybe i can learn not to be cynical. i wish someone would teach me that!

Your comments lack that bit subtlety that would make them amusing and they are very "obvious".

well if you need to explain a joke… 😉

Maybe we can work this out some day.

i’d like that. my apologies man.

Adobe has declared war on the pirates, which is fair doos, but it is us users who are getting caught in the crossfire. As long as you are aware of that.

100% with you. there’s just not much we can do except to voice our opinions. that’s why i persist in the occasional "rant" on the subject. the only way they’ll know we don’t like being treated this way is if we speak up. now that may not do any good (i won’t say "won’t", that’d be cynical) but i know adobe does monitor these forums, even though direct participation of employees has slackened off in the last couple of releases.

On a more practical level, can someone please advise on the proper way to clone a disk with an installation of CS3+ on it?

I believe people here (daryl p. and others?) have had good luck with acronis drive image.

<http://www.acronis.com/>

you definitely need to deactivate photoshop first, and i think there’s some options you need to set for doing the whole drive, not just the partitions. someone who uses it will hopefully chime in with full info.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
btw mylenium, you mentioned a possible language barrier. where are you from, if you don’t mind telling, and what’s your native language? i’m from new jersey & now pennsylvania, usa and i usually speak new jersey ‘merikun. 🙂
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 15, 2008
Mylie is German!
P
Phosphor
Oct 15, 2008
"…but you come across as extremely cynical, not even sarcastic."

I think you’d have a different measure for that had you met me here about 6 or 7 years ago.

🙂
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 15, 2008
Never clone a disk under a full moon!
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
good info trez, wasn’t there a switch you need to flip in acronis in order to get it to do the hidden secret sectors that adobe’s writing to?
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 15, 2008
Acronis True Image

yes, my bad, sorry for the confusion. true image, not drive image. drive image is some old sw i used to use from power quest (PQDI). and yes, i see it was eventually bought out and became the basis for norton ghost. (which was later bought out by symantec).

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DriveImage>
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 15, 2008
The reimaging process i use at work consists of a DVD with the OS and a HD with windows 98 and Ghost on it. Both are connected and when the board boots up, 98 shows up then Ghost. A series of choices are presented and once the final ok, it runs very well.

I am still curious about the Win98 use.

I have a stripped version of Acronis,on my Seagate supporting software. I haven’t tried the clone as I don’t have a need for it, but I am tempted to try.

The only thing that bothers me is the instructions to remove or reformat the drive from which you cloned. Seems to me one could clone to a disk that is pigtailed to the computer then saved for a rainy day and contunue using the original drive.
PS
Peter_Spier
Oct 15, 2008
I use Acronis True Image as well, and have had no issues. I use it both to set up a test system using a removable drive tray, and for disaster recovery. Deactivation is required before cloning if you expect to reactivate on the new drive (but even that can be cured with a call to Adobe in the case of hard drive failure that prevents deactivation).

There’s no way, however, I’d try to clone the OS when moving onto a new system with other new hardware — too many wrong driver issues. I had a board failure six months ago and tried a repair installation of Windows on the existing hard drive. It took at least as long as a clean install, maybe longer.

Peter
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 16, 2008
Just to answer a few points made above: I cloned my disks way back in July. I realized there might be an issue with Photoshop activation, but everything seemed OK at first. (If it hadn’t been, I would have gone back and tried to fix things while it was possible to do so.) CS2 asked to be reactivated. CS3 was dumb but worked, or seemed to. Then the computer started freezing randomly. At first I suspected a hardware/driver problem associated with the new disks. Tracking this problem to its source has taken a lot of painstaking detective work on the part of myself, Dell engineers and other professionals. Most of the inside of my computer has been replaced in the process. The OS has been upgraded (to SP3). Lots of stuff has been cleaned out or upgraded. The OS is as clean as a whistle. Event errors and warnings are now as rare as hen’s teeth. The computer has never run better, – except for this one thing. It will freeze suddenly at random and without warning anytime after CS3 is started, it can be minutes or hours, even after CS3 has stopped.

Yes, I have contacted Adobe, and did so as soon as it became clear that the problem was down to them. They took their time about it, but eventually came clean with the statement reproduced above.

Therefore it strikes me that there could be many people out there experiencing unexplained random freezes of their computers due to this problem, without realising it. Of course, lots of things can cause a computer to freeze, and all of these need to be eliminated. This is painstaking work. It is very frustrating to have tracked the problem down, to be told it can’t be fixed.

So if Adobe insist on using this technology to protect their intellectual property, they should at least print a health warning on the packet and maybe include better diagnostics to say when something is not working.

As things stand, the technology Adobe is using is crude and dangerous. I may appear to be a one in a 1000 victim, but this could be due to my perseverence in tracking down a problem that many may have put down to failing hardware, prevalent malware, or even, heaven forbid, to Microsoft.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 16, 2008
Why would you want to clone from an HD that has failed such that deactivation is not possible?
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 16, 2008
, to be told it can’t be fixed.

but it can. with a simple format. given that reinstalling the whole os takes about an hour, that’s the 1st thing you should’ve tried. (or i would’ve anyway, as soon as it became apparent how bad the problem was).
RB
Robert_Barnett
Oct 16, 2008
On the other hand Lynda the drive imaging software used to do this is not part of Windows or made by Microsoft and is not part of Photoshop, Creative Suite or from Adobe. So expecting a third party to bend over backwards to make their stuff work with a third third party is just unreasonable. That would be like having Ford design their cards to work with Toyota parts.

I also believe you will find that any of the software that you can drive image, restore the driving image and have it work doesn’t come with a guarantee that that will work. Also, how do you know that the people making the drive image software knows what they are doing. In the case of Norton Ghost anyone that thinks Symantec can create any program that isn’t is out of their mind.

You take your risks and their are no guarantees when it comes to software or how they work with each other.

Robert
TH
Trez_Hane
Oct 16, 2008
FWIW, I’ve had excellent results/luck with Acronis True Image. Both in a restore operation and using it to clone a new disk for the same computer. I did deactivate my Adobe apps first and, of course, I used a _Drive_ image and not a _Partition_ image.
TH
Trez_Hane
Oct 16, 2008
Actually, when you tell it to image the drive, it does everything unless you specify otherwise. It does ignore the Windows swap file, as it should. The only option I add to the normal routine is to have it verify the backup. Sure, it takes longer — but I feel a lot better knowing the backup is readable. It also can mount the image so that you can access it like a regular drive(s) if you just want to grab some specific data. No software is perfect, but I have to say that this one has taken good care of me. And their support folks are VERY quick with fixes/updates should they be needed.
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 16, 2008
I may appear to be a one in a 1000 victim

I would put it at one in a hundred thousand!
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 16, 2008
Why would you want to clone from an HD that has failed such that deactivation is not possible?

I didn’t say that. Everything was working, as far as I could tell, but the computer was getting a bit "sticky" and disk fragmentation was becoming a problem. I was simply running out of disk space.

Activation and deactivation appear to work fine, even after cloning. That is not the issue. In fact everything works, until it freezes. Then nothing works. No warnings, no error messages, nothing. Only way out is a hard reboot.

I would put it at one in a hundred thousand!

There is no way of knowing this. Lots of people experience random freezes on their computer. Some even put up with them and put it down to the "Windows Experience". Others end up ditching whole computers. In cases where the problem is difficult to trace, the statistics is hard to do.

Anyway, I’ve got some work to do. An OS to reinstall (that’s the easy bit) and lots of other stuff to install and configure. Thanks guys for the support, or not as the case may be.

I see that this has generated quite a long thread. One can only hope against hope that it’s enough to make Adobe sit up and take notice.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 16, 2008
In fact everything works, until it freezes.

Um, yes, that is a problem. A rather common one too. What I find interesting is that "it" works for a while. That to me doesn’t appear to be an issue with activation.

I work all the time with issues caused by program lockup. The times when I have to reboot as a hard reboot is traceable to problems sometimes all the way to BIOS. The OS is quite robust allowing for separation between program crashes and OS shutdown.

I’d start by looking at the event log immediately after the hard reboot. Another thing is to uncheck the auto reboot in the Startup and Recovery panel. Then you should see a BSOD with info on the crash.
System>Advanced>Startup and Recovery.
H
Ho
Oct 16, 2008
Basil, this may or may not work for you, but I use a program called Smart Close <http://bmproductions.fixnum.org/> to shut down nonessential apps and services before a heavy-duty Photoshop session. It is user configurable to allow the things you need (like your Wacom drivers) to remain loaded while turning off a lot of excess overhead; however essential OS stuff continues to run. I also shut down software firewall/anti-virus/malware apps since I’m not networked during PS editing.

I use this in conjunction with the 3GB switch to provide maximum performance in PS. I used to experience an occasional lockup myself and, since the Event Viewer had nothing useful to report, I went this route. Not so much as a hiccup since.

Good luck.
DZ
Dan_Zemke
Oct 16, 2008
I have a simple question: if we have Photoshop CS3/4 installed on XP systems, can we reliably make image backups of our disks? If so, how do we do it?

I appreciate best guesses but would prefer advice based on testing.

Dan

(who currently backs up using Acronis True Image v11 on Windows XP-SP3 every week. I also spent 12 hours rebuilding my system because of problems that seemed very similar to Basil’s)
JT
John_T_Smith
Oct 16, 2008
If you have not already done so, click the Show All Messages option and read everything

There have been several products mentioned that make an image that works with CS3
DZ
Dan_Zemke
Oct 16, 2008
Hey John – thanks. I did read the thread, but the truth is I did not come away with the impression that anyone suggesting a solution had actually backed up their systems, restored them and used the restored system for production.

I have restored from an image backup, and wasted an embarrassing amount of time, trying to diagnose the cause (and I am a computer professional). Was my problem because of CS3 copy protection? I don’t know. But I do know that I began to experience frequent hangs. I couldn’t even copy any files from Adobe directories as the first operation after a cold boot. And I did virus scans with multiple tools with none found.

Mylenium described a plausible cause, but didn’t suggest a solution.

Suggestions like deactivate before backups and do disk clones instead of partition image copies struck me as well-intentioned, but misguided advice from folks that have zero software development experience.

I’m going to go back and look at the prior messages in this thread, and if I am wrong about there not being a viable solution, I retract my "simple question" above with a post here.

Dan
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 16, 2008
that’s why i thought i had read there was a special switch that had to be set when backing up. i belive it was forum regular don or daryl who uses true image and posted that this was working, but he had to do something to get it to mirror the full drive, not just the readable partition. a forum search might turn it up. i’ve looked a couple times but haven’t found it. maybe one of those guys will see this and pop in.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 16, 2008
I think the post may have scrolled off the board. it was during the time CS was released.

daryl p! if you read this, what are you doing to make your disk images work?
DZ
Dan_Zemke
Oct 16, 2008
OK, I just reread the entire thread. Some folks seem to be saying saying that they’ve used the same software I use for image backups and restores without any problem. Perhaps deactivating Adobe software before every system backup prevents any Adobe copy-protection induced problem on restore. I can live with that but am not confident that the technique is a real fix.

I don’t recall any documents or notes from Adobe sugesting that you should always deactivate before a backup, otherwise your restore may not work. Can anyone point me to a reference?

The OP’s quote from tech support says his only option is to reformat and reinstall all (not just Adobe) software. If deactivation before backing prevents the problem, I would have expected tech support to have said so. Basil – did they?

Dan
TH
Trez_Hane
Oct 17, 2008
As I said early on, I have had no problems making and restoring a DRIVE (not partition) image with Acronis. It images everything, even the manufacturer’s hidden "restore" partition, if present. The only switches I can imagine are to NOT check "Exclude all system files or folders" and "Exclude all hidden files or folders". I can only speak from experience. YMMV
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 17, 2008
ya, i’m sorry. this thread i’m thinking of was quite a while ago an i might be misremembering, but i’m sure there are people here doing images successfully and they’re still at least semi-active. i see daryl pritchard, the guy who i’m pretty sure has done this, last posted in september.
RP
Russell_Proulx
Oct 17, 2008
fwiw I recently tested a disk image (disk with 4 primary partitions) of a multi-boot system (winXP and Vist64) that is managed by a partition manager (BootitNG) in its own partition. The whole thing restored just fine using Acronis True Image 11 (legit version with latest build, backing up to an external eSATA drive).

Being new to multi-booting OS’s with a partition manager I wanted to be certain I could restore an image to a new drive in the event of a major failure and the test succeeded. There was an initial BootitNG reactivation issue. But that was solved and the proper procedure has been noted in case it’s needed one day.

I did not lose any of my activations.

Russell
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 17, 2008
It appears that successful imaging is by imaging the entire drive, and not just the partition containing the os.

Is this correct? My intention was to clone c only to an 80G drive and store it until needed. Of course, the entire physical drive could be lost, but the second partition is already backed up for the critical files.

Damn! Makes the good ol’ days where you only had to worry about being sure your negs were in the right kind of sleeves and in the dark. Even that wasn’t all that critical!
TH
Trez_Hane
Oct 17, 2008
It appears that successful imaging is by imaging the entire drive, and not just the partition containing the os.

Is this correct?

You bet. It is critical in this day of multiple copy protection methods — it isn’t just Adobe. Corel relies on a system service. Some smaller programs and anti-virus setups use the boot sector and hidden sectors. I would never be comfortable with anything less than a drive image.

One saving grace is that in this day of cheap large drives, it is easy to have all your data on a separate drive. Acronis does a surprisingly good job of compressing the drive image when set for "normal" compression. There are higher settings available. You may not need as much space as you think.
DZ
Dan_Zemke
Oct 17, 2008
Trez, I’m glad it works for you, but it didn’t work for me and your suggestion to clone the drive sounds like it’s based on gut-level intuition rather than any plausible explanation of that should make a difference. At least for the way I use Acronis. A few clarifying comments.

All of my software is legit, registered, activated, fully patched etc. I know there are no hidden partitions on any of my drives because partitioned, formatted and installed all software myself – from bare drives and the base install disks. I always do vanilla full partition image backups of the OS/apps and when I (very ralely) do a restore, I never restore the MBR (with associated partition table) and always restore the backed image to its original location.

My system appeared to work just fine when I restored it too. I was writing some code that was copying files from a hidden directory that kept hanging. It started with a few files and within a week I was getting 10 hangs a day and I was doing as many full chkdsks. The copy hangs were reproducible using just the command line copy immediately after booting into Safe mode. Their were no relevant error or warning events in the Windows system log. I also noticed that a chkdsk c: /P from the Recovery Console always found and corrected errors on the C: partition. Run chkdsk twice in a row, and the second one always reported no errors. Do a boot/shutdown sequence in between and the second chkdsk always reported errors.

The the orginal poster’s quote from tech support seems to say that deactivation and reactivation after the restore will sometimes fix the problem. It didn’t for me.

I’m going contact tech support, provide them with Basil’s quote and ask for advise on making backup copies than can be restored, rather than maybe able to be restored. Since I’m quite comfortable with system logs, hex editors etc, I’m going to try and find out how to detect if I have a problem on a restored drive due to Adobe’s copy protection.

Dan
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 17, 2008
thanks for confirming russel1!

sounds like it’s based on gut-level intuition rather than any plausible explanation of that should make a difference.

maybe we’re not reading the same thread, but this is now seems verified by 3 people (2 in this thread) you need to do the drive, not just the partitions or data on it. don’t leave anything out. deactivate photoshop (and other adobe sw?) first.

I’m going to try and find out how to detect if I have a problem on a restored drive due to Adobe’s copy protection.

that would be a great find for the community. i think you’ll need to start looking in areas of the boot sector or in "unused" space on the drive.
EB
Ed_B
Oct 18, 2008
I have backed up and restored activated Ps CS3 many times with Acronis TI 11 MBR and image XP Pro SP3 OS. Recently I changed the boot drive to a larger size and created two partitions for dual boot of Vista 64 and XP Pro. I restored XP Pro with CS3 and MBR in the first partition. I installed Vista 64 in the second partition and let Vista setup the dual boot. I have backed up and restored the XP Pro partion with PS CS3 activated many times with no problems. I guess I have just been lucky.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 18, 2008
Perhaps the others are unlucky, if luck has anything (not!) to do with it.
JF
Jimmy_Flynn
Oct 18, 2008
nice!
EB
Ed_B
Oct 18, 2008
I am not questioning the existance of the problem only that I did not hit on the combination of steps to reproduce the problem.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 18, 2008
You really need some sort of debug log to be able to definitively trace it, along with the knowledge of how to use the data.
W
wings
Oct 18, 2008
I don’t understand what you get so mad about. Cloning is certainly not a common backup solution and most certainly always a risky affair, you should have considered that before you started using it.

You also said that you’ll be using a new photo editing solution. I don’t know how long you have been using Photoshop, but I seriously doubt that any serious Photoshop user who is using the program for years would decide to use a different program just because of this issue or in other words…

I still don’t see the problem. I have been cloning and restoring my system partition (but ONLY my system partition) that has CS3 on it since it was released and never had any of the issues that you have. Maybe time for a better cloning solution?

Now let’s assume that I do have an issue and that I lose data. Big deal! Anyone who does this kind of work should understand the importance of backups. The cloned images of my system partition are backed up on 2 separate drives. My data partition is backed up on 2 separate drives and an additional external drive that is kept in a fire proof safe, together with archived material on high quality DVD with Quickpar recovery data added.

So it takes one hell of a major disaster before I visit this forum like you do and write a post with CAPITAL letters complaining how I lost my data. It takes me 5 min to restore my system partition, about half an hour to restore my data partition. I sit longer than that on the can when I have a bad diarrhea after reading posts like yours….sigh
W
wings
Oct 18, 2008
And if you don’t like the tone of my reponse, whell I don’t like the tone of your post either, the capital letters, the bashing, the treats, being unresonable, etc.
P
Phosphor
Oct 18, 2008
H
Ho
Oct 18, 2008
Cloning is certainly not a common backup solution and most certainly always a risky affair, you should have considered that before you started using it.

If by "cloning" you mean *disk imaging*, that most certainly is a common backup solution which pretty much renders whatever else you wrote irrelevant (I stopped reading after the first sentence).

If you said anything worthwhile, I beg your pardon.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 18, 2008
<golf clapping for wings!> 🙂

dave milbut, "BEWARE OF ADOBE’S NEW COPY PROTECTION SOFTWARE – IT CAN SERIOUSLY HARM YOUR COMPUTER" #28, 14 Oct 2008 5:12 pm </webx?14/27>
B
Buko
Oct 18, 2008
Well I’m sure that some of you will find this post unhelpful but here goes anyway.

I just bought a new 1TB Seagate Barracuda I created a 200GB partition and cloned my system including all my Adobe applications to the New drive. everything works. Thing is I’m on a Mac still running Tiger for those who care.

So I really doubt Adobe is somehow sabotaging their software so people can’t clone their drives. If cloning is seriously harming your computer I believe it has more to do with the cloning software or Microsofts OS.

Because if Adobe’s copy protection system was harming Windows computers wouldn’t they build the same thing into their Mac software?
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 19, 2008
Buko: Not necessarily.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 19, 2008
Different source code, Buko.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 19, 2008
plus they’ve got it in for us windoze users. 😉
B
Buko
Oct 19, 2008
plus they’ve got it in for us windoze users.

I’m sure its Uncle Bill’s fault.
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 19, 2008
Buko: You mean ‘Uncle Steve’.
B
Buko
Oct 20, 2008
No, Uncle Bill. As Uncle Steve’s machines don’t seem to have a problem.
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 20, 2008
There are two Steves!
F
Freeagent
Oct 20, 2008
Well, lots of people grew up with several uncles…
DT
Don_Temple
Oct 20, 2008
Is there a moderator on here or do all answers to serious questions turn into a joke?? Where are you Adobe moderator?
JT
John_T_Smith
Oct 20, 2008
did not come away with the impression that anyone suggesting a solution

Oh well… what I use works for me, over 4 (rotated) boot drives which I change every time I make a major change in software

I do NOT de/re-activate anything… I simply make an image to external USB hard drive, put a different drive in and restore, then do any software install or removal

YMMV and all that

Dos version runs off a 3.5 inch boot disk
<http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-dos.htm>

Linux version creates a bootable CD, use if you have a USB mouse or keyboard <http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux.htm>
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 21, 2008
OK, so it seems disk cloning works for some, but not for others. It is certainly true that, if disk cloning software fails to make a faithful copy, then that is down to the cloning software and the way it is used, not to Adobe.

My gripe it not that this can happen, but that, when it does, it cannot be fixed. If, on the only copies of a disk you have, the hidden files are damaged, then it seems you need to do a reformat and full reinstall of everything in order to get everything running again. That is what is unacceptable. Just about everything in a computer is resilient enough to allow repair or replacement (at device, file or program level) if it goes wrong, but not this one thing. It is an Achilles heal. Not only that, but you will not notice anything is wrong immediately. Photoshop may run for several hours without crashing; the crash may occur even after you have shut it down. It will take you some time to realise what the problem is, by which time it may be too late to revert to some original working copy of the disk you may once have had.

That it is possible to write a file to a disk that cannot ever be erased or overwritten, except by reformatting, is certainly down to Uncle Bill. (Perhaps it is part of the Windows activation software.) One consequence is that remnants of CS3 can never be removed from a disk without reformatting it. Suppose all software did this and everything depended on the integrity of this one file or even a bunch of them? Computers would become very vulnerable indeed, and the sky could eventually fall in on them.

If it aint right for everybody, it shouldn’t be right for anybody.

Most backups are never used, but having them makes you feel comfortable and secure. However, this problem means that you can never be sure, or maybe less sure than you would like to be. Even John T Smith, with the time and resources to operate a full 4 disk rotation backup cycle, is only reasonably safe as long as he keeps to his proven procedure and as long as he thoroughly checks out CS3/4 on each cycle.

I think Adobe need to address this problem so that the most you ever have to do to repair a damaged CS installation is to do a full reinstall of the software itself. Anything more is an encroachment on the rights of the customers.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 21, 2008
Read the disclaimers.

Cloning and backups are options, not rights.

How many people have actually tested their backups, tested the clones? Do they work for you and your configuration?

If we lived in a perfect world, where hackers and pirates did not exist, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

You are not entitled , only provided.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 21, 2008
I think that’s what I sort of implied. (Though, if cloning is made impossible, how should we back-up our computers so as to avoid the troublesome expense of rebuilding them from scratch?)

There are other ways files can get damaged other than by mis-cloning them. I think one should be entitled/enabled to fix things when they get broken, whatever the reason.

It’s rather like having to buy a new car because you broke the key!
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 21, 2008
the fix in the case of the totally hosed system is to reformat. same as it’s always been with windows (not adobe). why is that so hard to understand? it’s not like "buying a new car at all". you have the same "car". you have a good (data) backup. you’ve lost nothing but a little time. if your time is too valuable, you can pay someone who’s good at these things to reformat your system and restore your data.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 21, 2008
As dave says….
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 21, 2008
Well all I do is reformat the boot drive, but I keep a backup of the initial Windows install on a seperate partition. I copy that over and re-install my apps. Things like my email settings are directed to another partition so they never get lost, all I save are my Windows user settings.

In the olden days, this would easily take 8-10 hours, now it is more like 2 or so hours. To me, cloning is a waste of time, but that is just my opinion.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 21, 2008
It all rather depends on how long you have had your computer and how much stuff is installed on it. I’ll let you know how long it takes me, but 2 hours, no way!

I stand by what I say. I really hate the attitude of some major software and media suppliers, like Microsoft, Sony, and now Adobe, that they should have more rights over my computer than I do. Because they enjoy a virtually monopolistic position in the market, we are having to put up with it. That doesn’t make it right!

If I had any real choice in the matter, I would not buy another Adobe product.
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 21, 2008
Sometimes we all feel that way!

Doesn’t help though. 🙁
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 21, 2008
To me, cloning is a waste of time, but that is just my opinion.

ditto.

Sometimes we all feel that way! Doesn’t help though

ditto.
N
nospam
Oct 22, 2008
wrote in message
Read the disclaimers.

Cloning and backups are options, not rights.

Maybe in your country. Here in the United States making backups of purchased software is a right.
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 22, 2008
Well my Master Suite is on the way, lip-smack, drool. We’ll see how I fare on this when I get it.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 23, 2008
Right.

I can now report that Adobe are now being much more supportive about this, than they had been when I started this thread.

First of all, they have pointed out that my problem was caused by cloning onto a different drive. The fact that most backup images will be transferred back to the original drive or onto an identical replacement drive, or, in the case of J T Smith, onto one of a set of presumably identical drives, explains why the process apparently works for most people. In my case, I cloned to a different drive – different make and capacity, which is why it broke.

In order to transfer Adobe licensed software to a different drive, Adobe recommend that you first deactivate and uninstall the software from the original drive, perform the cloning operation, and then reinstall and reactivate it on the new drive.

So now you know. It’s apparently much less of an issue for backups than it is for upgrades. However there are no guarantees.

As for a fix, Adobe say there isn’t one, though they do offer some hope that installing CS4 could resolve the issue without reformatting, but not much.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 23, 2008
I believe that is also true for the OS. ???
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 23, 2008
So now you know.

I think most of us already did Basil!
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 23, 2008
good for you basil. nice follow through.
V
vizion
Oct 24, 2008
All my system, including the OS and installed programs, run on raid 1.

What are the implications here if one drive goes down and is replaced?

Does anyone know?

David
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 24, 2008
You’re basically screwed, but depending on the type of RAID, stripe or mirror, you may be able to rebuild the files (stripe totally screwed, mirror possibly screwed).
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 24, 2008
If mirrored is possibly screwed, why bother?
BC
Bart_Cross
Oct 24, 2008
Well because the whole file is created completely on each of the two drives, it is a matter of being able to extract one of the files from one drive. I think you use the program that creates a mirrored RAID to unlink the drives, but you would have to do that before a failure.
ND
Nathan_Donald
Oct 24, 2008
No software vendor has the right to touch your boot sector, or install hidden software without your permission, or to tell you what other software you can use on your system, such as backup technologies.

Likewise, no software vendor has the right to make you contact them in any way to use software you have purchased. This is a flagrant violation of privacy.

Adobe is deliberately making life difficult, and only for paying customers. Users who pirate the software have none of these issues; software cracks remove them all.

As far as I can tell, Adobe simply prefers that people pirate their software, and is intentionally making paying for their software as unappealing an option as they can.

I, for one, am happy to oblige.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 24, 2008
Adobe is deliberately making life difficult, and only for paying customers.

but of course. that’s what i’ve been saying. you can vote with your dollars. and the gimp is free. <http://www.gimp.org> just released an update too. it’s quite a capable little editor. i use it on my laptop. but photoshop, it ain’t.
P
Phosphor
Oct 24, 2008
"…but photoshop, it ain’t."

<Weeping Kid in some future Public Service Announcement>"Why do you think they call it ‘GIMP!’ ::sniffle::"</Weeping Kid in some future Public Service Announcement>

😉 XD
RS
Richard_Shewmaker
Oct 25, 2008
I pre-ordered CS4 and haven’t had time to install until this evening. Well, my PC’s DVD drive can’t read either of the DVDs that come with the product. This is the first time I’ve had this happen. The "Learning CS4" DVD that’s labeled as both Mac and Windows compatible can be read by my Mac’s relatively new external DVD drive, which is a LaCie 16X Lightscribe DL d2 DVDRW FW purchased a little under a year ago (which I had to get because the internal DVD drive started shredding discs). It’s probably some cutting-edge copy protection scheme that went over the edge. Of course I can’t reach support now, and when I took the time to fill out the "contact us" form, when submitted I got a server error and lost my message.

I haven’t found anything about anyone else running into the same problem. Pfff.
JJ
John Joslin
Oct 25, 2008
The protection on Photoshop does not affect the readability of the disk, it is created when you actually install the program.

Sound more like a problem with your DVD reader.
BL
Bob Levine
Oct 25, 2008
Likewise, no software vendor has the right to make you contact them in any way to use software you have purchased.

You haven’t purchased the software…Adobe owns it. You’ve purchased a license to use it in accordance with the rules in EULA.

Nobody is forcing you to buy anything, but using any of this as an excuse to steal it laughable.

Bob
WE
Wolf_Eilers
Oct 25, 2008
i use it on my laptop. but photoshop, it ain’t.

Just used GIMP for the first time on my parents computer. To say that GIMP is not the same as Photoshop is like saying the planet Mercury is not the same as Jupiter. Event though GIMP is free it is still a dollar or two overpriced. 🙂
GF
Garrison_Fall
Oct 25, 2008
Oh bugger – this isn’t looking good.

I’ve encountered a window entitled;

"Licensing for this product has stopped working" when you start any i Adobe Creative Suite 3 application". (Tech Help kb401528 refers).

It goes on to tell me,

"When you launch any Adobe Creative Suite 3 applications, you see i the error message, "Licensing for this product has stopped working. i You cannot use this product at this time. You must repair the problem i by uninstalling and then reinstalling this product or contacting i your IT administrator or Adobe customer support for help."

Strangely, this happens for PS CS3, but not for Bridge, which is about the only other CS3 product I use regularly.

Me being rather lazy, rather than uninstalling then reinstalling, I tried following all the solutions in the TechNote but was unsuccessful. I’m reluctant to reinstall but I should have done it in the first place after wasting the whole afternoon faffing with the TechNote (I thought I may be able to learn something by delving into the guts of the software as the TechNote instructed. Now, all the above talk has scared me silly regarding the potential perils of reinstalling and backing up etc.

I basically agree with Basil C. (the originator of this discussion). Photoshop is a premium product and I had to save up for a long while to pay the premium price for it. The laptop I use Photoshop on is virtually a Photoshop machine; I keep it as ‘clean’ and simple as possible in order to prevent possible problems from other software. So far PSCS3 has been good with no major hitches (some minor irritation with a couple of things). Then suddenly, through no fault of my own, the program locks me out.

I paid big bucks for the product hoping that Adobe’s professional reputation would be reflected in a professional product. I am annoyed that something they decide to secretly load on me (possibly with a recent update) would malfunction and require me to correct it. Yes, as always ‘Buyer Beware’ is the universal rule but whatever happened to Customer Service? Don’t punish all the honest people by forcing intrusive and disruptive security measures on them. Do the job properly so we don’t suffer because of the thieves of the world.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 25, 2008
Event though GIMP is free it is still a dollar or two overpriced.

if you can’t handle gimp, you’ll never be able to handle photoshop. turn in your computer now and save everyone the trouble. 😉

"When you launch any Adobe Creative Suite 3 applications, you see the error message, "Licensing for this product has stopped working. You cannot use this product at this time. You must repair the problem i by uninstalling and then reinstalling this product or contacting your IT administrator or Adobe customer support for help."

i’ve had that happen and sometimes just restarting photoshop will help. once i had to restart the system. i’d try that first if you haven’t. are you doing anything like blocking certain services from running (like the ALM license mgr service for starters)? how about some of your apps like antivirus or spyware removal. is something being overly zealous in "protecting" you? had any updates to those apps lately?

I heard a recent panda anti-virus update caused some problems, but i THINK a later update fixed them…
RS
Richard_Shewmaker
Oct 25, 2008
It *is* *very* disappointing for exactly the reasons you give: it’s a great product and very expensive and yet it’s those of us who purchase and install the product using Adobe’s media who get screwed by the protection schemes they deploy without fully testing or understanding what these controls can cause. They shouldn’t be writing their protective measures into core operating systems. I don’t mind a periodic ET phone home method which if unsuccessful after X number of times would disable the program or do so if the copy was bootleg, but they should restrict their security to their software, not my computer.

I have no doubt that the reason my DVD drive can’t read the installation disc is due to a protective measure of some sort. The drive is fine: it’s used daily. I *have* on the other hand experience with movie DVDs which would not play on my DVD player (not the comps) because of copy protection schemes Sony and Lionsgate deployed without testing on an adequate range of players. Sony admitted to it, provided replacement DVDs to people who requested replacements, and stopped using whatever it was that foxed the players. Lionsgate said nothing about the issue.

I’ll see what kind of response I get from Adobe (I filed a support request) and if they don’t get back to me I’ll call tech support. What do you want to bet they tell me to download it and install it that way. I’ll come back and let you know what happens.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 25, 2008
I haven’t seen the update, dave, and if you have a link, I would appreciate it.

They have never responded to my concerns, nor have they installed any update as part of theur regular procedures. Here is one place that I wish I could be notified. Updating their AV definitions is one thing but screwing with the app itself quite another.
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 25, 2008
no, i was relying on what i heard from you larry. so they never did issue an update? i thought you said they did. my bad.
GF
Garrison_Fall
Oct 26, 2008
Thanks people, I’ve now tried reinstalling the software but it won’t even let me do that! I’m starting to feel a little bit FRUSTRATED. (Apologies to those who don’t like shouting.)
I’ve submitted a help request to Adobe – I hope they help me with it. In case it helps anyone else, here it is…

Hello,

When I attempt to start Photoshop CS3 a dialog box entitled, "Licensing for this product has stopped working", appears. It instructs me with, "You must repair the problem by uninstalling and then reinstalling this product or caontacting your IT administrator or Adobe customer support for help".

I’m unable to uninstall or reinstall the product – the Uninstaller and Installer begin then stop, saying the process has failed.

I’ve found one ‘solution’ within Adobe Support, that refers to Adobe Reader 8 but states that it is suitable for all CS3 products. The article, called, ‘Tech Help kb401528’, involves manually activating a service called ‘FLEXnet’. I’ve downloaded and installed the relevant patch but the FLEXnet service is not even in my machines services.

PSCS3 was working fine two days ago and I havent done anything to it to muck it up. The error message clearly says, "Licensing for this product has stopped working"; I didn’t do it!
I can’t find any useful advice anywhere to correct this.

I checked with Adobe Updater that all the latest updates are in. There are two, ‘Extend Script Toolkit 2.2.2’ and ‘Adobe Colour Common STI Update’. Which it is unable to install. It recommends I uninstall the product and try updating again. Well, as I’ve explained, I can’t even uninstall Photoshop. (The installer won’t let me pick which components I want to install or uninstall.) The two missing updates don’t sound related to the problem but Ithought I should mention them anyway.

Maybe it has more to do with ‘FLEXnet’ not appearing in my ‘Services’? I’ve tried downloading and installing the ‘Licensing Patch’ – no good. I can’t find a likely looking ‘FLEXnet’ download in Adobe.

I’ve been using PSCS3 successfully for maybe 18 months. About a week ago I installed new Security (Trend Micro Internet Security Pro 2009). I have completely disabled that to see if it was the problem – it wasn’t. The machine has been rebooted a number of times as well. I’ve also stopped all other possible applications, including antivirus/spyware/malware programs.

Can you please tell me how to fix this?

Good luck fellas,

Garrison Fall
TH
Trez_Hane
Oct 26, 2008
Garrison,

Flexnet Service is indeed essential. Have you run "services.msc" and checked to make sure it has not been switched from manual to disabled? Just go to Start|Run and type that in without the quotes to bring up the services console.

The flexnet program itself is "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Macrovision Shared\FLEXnet Publisher\FNPLicensingService.exe" If it is not in that location on your machine, a simple search should turn it up.

Good luck!

Trez
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 26, 2008
Maybe it has more to do with ‘FLEXnet’ not appearing in my ‘Services’?

that sounds like it. follow trez’s excellent advice.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Oct 26, 2008
You can also find it by right clicking My Computer>Manage>Services and Applications>Services.
GF
Garrison_Fall
Oct 28, 2008
Thank you gentlemen, my PS3 is now GO! I had a look for FLEXnet as you instructed and there it was, quietly tucked away in the Common/Macrovision Shared file. I checked the Services list and it definitely wasn’t there. I activated the FNP LicensingService.exe and in a couple of seconds it put FLEXnet into Services and I was able to manually start it. Lo and behold, I had my CS3 back in business. Thanks again.

Adobe did reply to my help request but referred me to the same solution that I had already unsuccessfully tried. (I’ve no idea why FLEXnet wasn’t installed. I’ve asigned it a "trusted" status for the Antivirus/spyware program just in case it had shut it down.) Thankfully you put me onto the ‘FNP’ name as I had searched for "FLEXnet.exe" previously without success.

Adobe was kind enough to send me some extra information about uninstalling and reinstalling PSCS3 with the help of a ‘Cleanup Script’ and a Microsoft Installer utility. They provided the links to the two files.

I’ll try including the Adobe help reply here in case you are interested. It was new to me but you may well be on top of it already. Maybe someone else will find it useful…

Good day. Thank you for contacting Adobe Asia Pacific Support. In response to your inquiry, we understand that you are having problem in using your Photoshop CS3. You can copy or click the link below where you can see a documentation on how to fix your issue.
<http://www.adobe.com/go/kb401528>
Licensing for this product has stopped working" when you start any Adobe Creative Suite 3 application
Solution 2 which is to Set the FLEXnet Licensing Service to Manual and Start the service should be found in Control Panel > Administration Tools. If you cannot find Administration Tools, search in Wndows Vista for Component Services. When you are on the component services windows double click on Services and look for Flexnet Licensing. As for uninstalling and reinstall your CS3, if you cannot do it using the Add or Remove program, you can use the CS3 Clean Up Script to completely remove any CS3 applications and files to give you a fresh installation, please refer to the link below for instructions on how to download the clean up script.
<http://www.adobe.com/support/contact/cs3clean.html> (download + install + run)
<http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290301> (download + install only) * TIP – we normally suggest to our customers to run the clean script on level 2 or 3 (just put in there 3) at least twice to remove all files of
CS3.
After running the clean up, please create a new user account in your computer and install the software from there. But before running the CS3 Clean Up script, please download a required component of this utility found in <http://support.microsoft.com/kb/290301>. Hope this helps.Feel free to email us back for more assistance or should you wish to speak to a technical support agent, you can contact Adobe Tech Support and quote your Customer ID number.
For more information about Adobe products we have Free Technical Support Information–24Hour Access at the links below
— Support Knowledgebase: <http://www.adobe.com/support/main.html> — User to User forums: <http://www.adobe.com/support/forums/main.html>

I’m going to try to hunt down some info on how to keep all the downloaded updates before I uninstall my present PSCS3 version as there is a lot of download time in it and I’m on a limited plan. If any of you guys know about that "I would be most obliged if…"

Cheers,

Garrison
TH
Trez_Hane
Oct 28, 2008
Thanks for reporting back… :^)
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 30, 2008
As for a fix, Adobe say there isn’t one, though they do offer some hope that installing CS4 could resolve the issue without reformatting, but not much.

I might have added that they have done the decent thing and provided me with an apology and a free upgrade to Photoshop CS4 (Who said complainig is a waste of time?); Also some very helpful advice on how to perform the uninstalls and reinstallations. Maybe they have a heart after all, and, most importantly, I hope it means that they are taking this issue seriously.

It remains to be seen whether this provides me with a fix. I’ll keep you posted.

I think the lesson here, which is one that applies to lots of things, is that customers who don’t complain, when a complaint is warranted, end up getting the service they come to expect.

Basil
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 30, 2008
provided me with an apology and a free upgrade to Photoshop CS4

dude, that’s frigging COOL BEANS right there! 🙂

good for you!

customers who don’t complain, when a complaint is warranted, end up getting the service they come to expect.

troof!!!
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 30, 2008
(now don’t forget your manners. it would be nice to send a letter to the person’s boss, who finally helped you… at least, that’s what i’d do. that kind of stuff from clients can go a long way come review time!) 😉
BC
Basil_Crowley
Oct 30, 2008
it would be nice to send a letter to the person’s boss, who finally helped you…

Point taken, but how would I find out who that is? The case eventually got escalated to someone in a position of higher authority, after a lot of messing about and following my response to their little bombshell above. All I have is the first name and initial of that person (who quite possibly is the boss) and my only line of contact is through the support portal. The case is still open, awaiting the outcome of the installation of CS4 onto my supposedly damaged system, so I will get the opportunity to express (more) gratitude and give credit where it is due, in due course.

Yes, it is a good outcome, but not necessarily better than one should have a right to expect, but that doesn’t mean that they should not be thanked for it. When companies behave properly towards their customers, they tend to keep them, while the customers should do their best to reward this kind of good behaviour. It’s in everybody’s best interests.

(Incidentally, it wasn’t exactly free, at it turned out. I did spend 5 hours hanging on the phone last week, trying to get through to Adobe customer support in order to secure the order, so I guess I will be paying for it in phone bills! Now, the customer support phone line… no, that’s an issue for another day…)
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 4, 2008
i’d go with what you know. the 1st name and initials and approximate dates and times of calls. all large companys can "pull the tapes" of call reps to determine who was involved and what was said. (my wife’s a call center rep of many years.)

The case is still open, awaiting the outcome of the installation of CS4 onto my supposedly damaged system, so I will get the opportunity to express (more) gratitude and give credit where it is due, in due course.

cool. get names if you’re inclined to thank the person(s) responsible.

again, glad you got a favorable outcome. this kind of service is priceless and getting harder and harder to find these days in all industries. it should be rewarded in my opinion, when stumbled upon! 🙂
H
Ho
Nov 4, 2008
Free upgrade, eh? And just when I thought Adobe was becoming the new Microsoft. 🙂
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
Nov 5, 2008
Hello all,

Seeing Dave spoke my name, I must have felt the vibes and been prompted to return to the forum tonight. Haven’t been here in quite some time and thought I’d peek to see what was up with CS4 comments. This thread very much caught my attention, as if I find CS4 cannot be successfully restored from a drive image, then that would be one major strike against any purchasing it…and likewise, one good reason to wait for the trial before I even consider a purchase. For me, I like being able to image a basic installation of my system as well as a subsequent one where I’ve installed some of my more significant applications. Then, if I install something at a later date that corrupts my system in a way I can’t seem to resolve, I can easily rebuild from the backup image and not face hours of software reinstallations, tweaks, etc. In my opinion, NO company should utilize any kind of piracy protection that cannot endure being imaged and restored using any of the well-known drive imaging programs…Ghost, True Image, Drive Image 7, or ShadowProtect Desktop.

But, regardless of all that and to try to somewhat answer your question Dave, I don’t know what I’ve done differently that would permit me to restore CS3 without any real problems. I’ve not had to restore from those backup images more than a few times, but what may have been the saving grace was that I saved the FlexNet license folder before restoring the system image. I do not think there is necessarily any kind of synchronization of the license files with the hidden activation hashes in the boot sector, a la CS1’s very poor licensing mechanism, but I still save the license folders assuming such possibility exists. In any case, when I restore my images, I typically do not have to restore the boot sector, so I suspect it to be the combination of that and of separately restoring the license folder that permits me to resume use of PS without any real problems. I think I may have run into a repair activation at least once, but that was handled without a problem.

If I do go eventually to CS4, I may well install it and re-image my system without activating it, as I do think that to be a safer approach provided that one remembers to deactivate the license before restoring the backup image.

Oh, and I’ve used both Ghost 14 and Drive Image 7 for creating disk images in the past. I’ve never imaged my home system with True Image although I did buy it once and found I favored Ghost 14 for some reason. Having used True Image with much success at work, I’m inclined to revisit it for home use again, as I have seen occasions where Ghost images didn’t restore properly and the saving grace was that I still had another usable image available.

Regards,

Daryl
F
Freeagent
Nov 5, 2008
If I do go eventually to CS4, I may well install it and re-image my system without activating it

….but see this:

<http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b6ec87/7>

CS4 auto-activates if it a) detects a previous activated version, or b) detects an internet connection. So it’ll probably already be activated.
BL
Bob Levine
Nov 5, 2008
So it’ll probably already be activated.

Not if you launch it and deactivate it.

Bob
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 5, 2008
thanks daryl. i was pretty sure it was you that had some good experiences with restores. i appreciate you popping in here and setting me straight.

dave
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
Nov 5, 2008
Auto-activation? Oh boy! Can’t say I like the sound of that even though it’s probably no big deal but more just the principle of the idea. This leaves me wondering if disabling the internet connection and hiding the license data folder would suffice to defeat the auto-activation. Perhaps not, if the hard drive hash will suffice to indicate a prior product activation. Either way, it doesn’t really matter since as Bob says, CS4 could just be deactivated after launch, before preparing a drive image.

I’d be curious to hear if the need for an internet connection is required for activation or not. I expect it is for deactivation, as has been historically the case. While a relatively minor problem, I still consider that to be one problem with Adobe’s licensing process: For an application of this caliber, the user should be fully able to uninstall and reinstall the application, and enable/activate it for use, independent of a need for internet or telephone-based activation. Diskeeper Pro works this way…normally an internet connection is used to activate it, but you can also activate the product by way of a second computer, where the activation process generates a "license.dal" file that can be used and reused at any time as needed. Because the license file is still created based upon data generated on the host computer for Diskeeper, you cannot readily use that file on any other PC, so there is still a reasonable level of piracy protection even if the process may be a bit more vulnerable to being hacked. I feel that any application intended for "professional use", as is so often said of Photoshop, should accommodate use of that application on a computer in a remote location. This would accommodate a program failure where one needs to uninstall/reinstall and possibly reactivate the program although having no internet/telephone communication available. Otherwise, one needs a backup drive image, alternate version of the program, or activation exploit to work around the situation. I assume Adobe has provided no such feature in CS4?

Regards,

Daryl
TH
Trez_Hane
Nov 6, 2008
OK–finally I can give a little voice of experience to this lengthy discussion.

Today, while mucking about in my registry trying to get rid of the lingering effects of an old (and nameless) anti-virus program, I succeeded in totally destabilizing my system. Fortunately, I had just imaged my system drive to an external HD earlier in the day using True Image 2009 and I also had made a TI boot CD.

So I booted the CD and chose to restore the whole drive (not just the partition) and anxiously awaited the result.

I am happy to say that everything came back perfectly. Neither Photoshop CS4, nor my CS3 versions of InDesign and Illy required reactivation, nor was there any apparent network activity on their part. Everything "just worked" as they say in some circles…

And the old anti-virus remnants are still there to stay unless I someday decide to reformat.

Trez
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 6, 2008
I am happy to say that everything came back perfectly. Neither Photoshop CS4, nor my CS3 versions of InDesign and Illy required reactivation, nor was there any apparent network activity on their part. Everything "just worked" as they say in some circles…

w00t! 🙂
BL
Bob Levine
Nov 6, 2008
There is another way to avoid the autoactivation. Don’t put a serial number in when installing. It will install in demo mode but the 30 days doesn’t start until the first launch.

Bob
BC
Basil_Crowley
Nov 20, 2008
Just for the record, there is interesting stuff, some of it quite amazing, about product activation on the following pages:
<http://www.adobe.com/products/activation/>
(which relates to Adobe products) and:
<http://www.adobe.com/products/activation/version1/> (which relates to Macromedia products.)
For example, Macromedia writes activation data to track zero, while Photoshop activation is alleged to be able to survive high-level formatting.
Ghosting is said to be supported, subject to a number of caveats. These pages generally relate to older products. Adobe are constantly making their products less crackable, so who knows what CS4 does.
Note the reassurances that, for most people, most of the time, the technology is for the most part safe. How safe is that??
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 20, 2008
Adobe are constantly making their products less crackable,

no they’re not. they’re wasting money and manpower that could be spent on features and bug fixes on appeasing marketing and accounting suits. the products are cracked before they’re even released.

if they (anyone) could create a perfect, uncrackable product, i would imaginve it would be extremely inconvenient for us, the paying customers.

very sad, but true.
B
Buko
Nov 20, 2008
i would imaginve

I’m sure you would dave. B)
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 20, 2008
whatchoo talkin bout buko? 😛 (you shoulda waited until the 30 minute edit window timed out! ;))

i would imagine it would be extremely inconvenient for us, the paying customers.

consider basil’s already fairly tragic story…
JJ
John Joslin
Nov 20, 2008
I think by "safe" they mean it won’t actively destroy data.
GR
Gary_Robertshaw
Nov 22, 2008
Interesting thread, and interesting how the same names you see in other threads have basically the same replies…i.e. "you’re too stupid to do things right, it works for me."

Assuming Adobe support actually replied as quoted by the original poster, it is indefensible and outrageous…yet you get the Adobe-bots chiming in with such drool as
"get a Mac"; what a useless comment and baloney besides, and Bill Gates is Satan and Steve Jobs is God;
"the sky is falling"; assuming the reply was what it was said to be, that’s not paranoia or a false alarm, and if they know this is the case and find it acceptable, they’re utter jerks.
"just deactivate before reinstalling". Right. Just boot up your failed hard drive and deactivate it. Just how do you do that, rewind the video tape to yesterday and then deactivate PS while it was working? Idiotic comment.
"too lazy to reinstall your software?" Great indication that he buys a nice box at Walmart and uses it as-is. Those of us who really use our computers can take literally days setting things up so everything is current, no unnecessary apps, things are where we need them, and we then clone the drive to avoid several days of unnecessary work should a drive fail or some other disaster happen. And you write it off as just being lazy.

While such behavior is a fact-of-life for forums, whether they be Microsoft yes-men, Applebots, or Adobe-can-do-no-wrong cultists, it sure causes a lot of useless waste in what could be an informative thread. The issue, for some of us at least, is a real concern if it is genuine, and several days of my time is not a ‘sky is falling’ silly rant.

So the lesson is: only post problems that you know there is a fix for; oterwise, it will be your fault, you have the wrong equipment, it’s Windows fault or your drive is corrupted (even if everything else works perfectly), or you worry over nothing, or you’re making it all up. No matter what, it will be YOUR fault, because things work perfectly for their new, Photoshop-dedicated 64-bit 16GB multi-RAID 1GB graphics card of an approved brand, $10,000 machine, what’s wrong with you that you’re not buying one of those to run CS?

Just hope that the activation software doesn’t think your RAID is a piracy attempt, or it may just choose to make you reformat everything, just in case.
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 22, 2008
yet you get the Adobe-bots chiming in with such drool as "get a Mac";

dude, did someone steal your humor processor or is it just fried? I think walmart is having a sale this week.
P
Phosphor
Nov 22, 2008
"Interesting thread, and interesting how the same names you see in other threads have basically the same replies…i.e. "you’re too stupid to do things right, it works for me."

At the risk of stating the obvious, Gary, we see plenty of occasions here where that’s simply shorthand for the more accurate explanation.

To sharpen that pencil a bit, I think often the "stupid" attribute gets smeared on a little too quickly. What get the char-broil treatment is more likely to be the symptoms of a hapless user’s inability to focus, discern patterns of behavior in their systems, make connections between cause and effect and to methodically, incrementally work through logical troubleshooting procedures.

I know plenty of brilliant people who couldn’t troubleshoot even a minor problem if you held a gun to their pants.
B
Buko
Nov 23, 2008
So Gary you must be having problems you can’t fix, Right?
FM
Fred M Stevens
Nov 23, 2008
I think Adobe accepts that people use imaging/cloning methods for setting up systems, since they have this doc:

<http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405453>

If you’re doing imaging/cloning for data backup, well that I think is an odd method. If you’re going to get a new hard drive and just use the cloned drive from which to access your personal data, then that makes sense. I think just copying files to other drives (with out without data backup software) is the way to go. Then, take the drive off-site into a fire safe, and you’re fairly secure. Hard drives are super-cheap so there’s really no reason not to have several of them available for backup.
BC
Basil_Crowley
Nov 24, 2008
I think Adobe accepts that people use imaging/cloning methods for setting up systems, since they have this doc: <http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405453>

In this article, Adobe are referring to software deployment over a corporate network, not backups or one-off upgrades. It probably relates to the commercially licensed software that does not require activation.

If you’re doing imaging/cloning for data backup, well that I think is an odd method.

The only way to back-up a system drive is to clone it. Otherwise you have to reinstall and patch all your software all over again, very laborious!! 🙁

File by file backup is fine for data, but that’s not what we are discussing here.
D
donmontalvo
Nov 30, 2008
Fred M Stevens – 12:59pm Nov 23, 08 PST (#171 of 172)

I think Adobe accepts that people use imaging/cloning methods for setting up systems, since they have this doc:

<http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405453>

If you’re doing imaging/cloning for data backup, well that I think is an odd method. If you’re going to get a new hard drive and just use the cloned drive from which to access your personal data, then that makes sense. I think just copying files to other drives (with out without data backup software) is the way to go. Then, take the drive off-site into a fire safe, and you’re fairly secure. Hard drives are super-cheap so there’s really no reason not to have several of them available for backup.

Admins who deploy TLP or CLP (volume licenses) to large mixed platform environment are having problems with the FLEXnet licensing mechanism "breaking". This is not something Adobe will quickly come out with a fix for, unfortunately.

Adobe needs to provide enterprise environments with a key server ability. We’re looking into Sassafras, but what good is it if FLEXnet license mechanism breaks?

C’mon Adobe, take the lead from Quark who provided us with Quark License Administrator (QLA). Right now Adobe is looking like they’ve become too successful too fast so they don’t have to listen?

Don

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