maybe its an xp64 driver issue…..I will report on vistax64 when cs4 arrives……but let’s face it XP64 is a medium/low priority for new software
It’s also unsupported. Only Vista64 has support.
Bob
How would you rate speed, in general terms, compared to CS3? I am waiting for mine to arrive still.
Thanks,
Jacqui
Speed of some things is terrible with CS4 on Xp64 compared to CS3. Not sure why they couldn’t implement at least the 32bit version of CS4 with OGL on XP64 since there are tons of programs using OpenGL on Xp, but regardless it really seems that standard viewport behaviour has tanked with CS4.
b
Could anyone tell me if the the new "smoother" display available with OpenGL means we can actually work at less than 1:1 on screen, and still see perfect detail? I don’t care about the smooth scrolling or zooming as much, just how tight the detail is on screen. Right now I do most of my work at 1:1/100% and only zoom out to check it, but if I could avoid having to do this it would be worth going to Vista just for that!
Thanks in advance
b
The only thing that smoothing does is get rid of the jaggies. You are at 33% or 66% seeing 1/3 and 2/3rd of the image data. The smoothing isn’t going to do anything to help that. You still can’t use anything other than 100% for accurate sharpening, noise reduction, etc. effects.
Robert
Well one would assume that if they said it they meant it. Adobe isn’t given to saying stuff and that not meaning it. 64-bit is still very much bleeding edge.
Robert
Wrong again Robert!
CS4 with the appropriate video card give a true rendering at all magnifications.
Adobe says No OPenGL drivers in XP64? That isn’t the case is it?
No, it isn’t. OpenGL works just fine with the 32bit version, only the 64bit version does not support OpenGL.
Not sure why they couldn’t implement at least the 32bit version of CS4 with OGL on XP64
As per the above: They have. Your GPU just may not be supported, regardless, because Adobe considers it "old" (or takes it as a quick excuse to blame all the problems on you and walk away with clean hands, depending on how you see it). You can set a registry key to enable it (at your own risk). Save the below to a *.reg file, then double-click to import it into the registry.
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Adobe\Photoshop\11.0]
"AllowOldGPUS"=dword:00000001
I don’t have my packages yet, but the settings file may also be on the installer disk along with other legacy compatibility registry hacks as already done in the past.
Mylenium
Mylenium,
Thanks for the input. Am I to understand that you are saying the above registry change "might" enable GPU tasking in XP64 or are you referring to older GPUs in XP32?
TPM
XP 64, but only the 32bit version of PS running on XP64 will benefit from it. The native 64bit version will stay inert when it comes to hardware accel.
Mylenium
If you view a 1000 x 1000 pixel image at 50% you are only seeing half the pixels.
That statement is at the very best stupid
It’s a quarter. Gotcha.
Well I knew what I meant! B)
Thanks for the input guys – I will try that registry hack and see what happens (after backing everything up, as I know what is likely to happen 🙂 )
b
My question and understanding about all of this…
On my monitor images and text appear nice and smooth at 100%, 50%, 25% – however, as soon as I use other sizes e.g. 24.9% or 66.7% the images and text appears jagged. This is with CS3.
My understanding is that, with CS4, you can zoom in at any magnification and your image will "appear" smooth. The technology to achieve this is OpenGL.
Adobe is not supporting OpenGL on XP 64, so this new ability to "appear" smooth at any magnification won’t be the case with XP 64.
The 32-bit version, which by default, gets installed along with the 64-bit version however, should work, but may not with older graphic adapters. A possible hack for getting it to work, is in post #9.
My questions are: could this hack also work with the 64-bit version of CS4? If not, would it be safer to just install the 32-bit version only?
Sorry I am a layman not technical boffin with all this stuff 🙂
Hi Dar,
This is from the GPU KB article, that points to the trouble shooting Mylenium offered:
5. Perform additional troubleshooting.
There are two extra GPU plug-ins that might help you if your GPU is older and you have trouble starting Photoshop or you cannot use the OpenGL features. These two plug-ins are explained in "Crashes occur, Photoshop CS4 won’t open, or some features are slow and OpenGL is unavailable" (TechNote kb405064)
{http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405064}. Disclaimer: Adobe doesn’t support these Photoshop CS4 GPU plug-ins and provides this information and the procedures to use them as a courtesy only.
My questions are: could this hack also work with the 64-bit version of CS4?
No. The program queries the operating system version upon startup and if it does not receive a proper return string, it will disable those routines. Unfortunately there is no way to hack this mechanism.
If not, would it be safer to just install the 32-bit version only?
That’s not possible. On 64bit systems, always both versions will be installed. Feel free to only use the 32bit version as you see fit. Nobody can force you to even launch the 64bit version once (though one day, when that extra big job or a heavy 3D model comes along, you may wish to). They both operate independently from each other, so there’s no risk of messing things up.
Mylenium
Will the 32bit version of CS4 deal with RAM over 2G the same way CS2 does? I mean I have 6G of ram so I have my ram usage in CS2 set to 100% since it can only see the 1st 2 gig. I guess I could run it and see.
In case anybody cares, on XP64 the 32bit CS4 sees the 1st 3.5G of my 6G of ram.
Mylenium,
Thank you for your help. I will keep an eye on this topic for any new hacks for XP 64.
Jacqui
Dar – it is my understanding that a 32 bit OS will only address 3.2G of RAM. You need a 64 bit OS to go above that limit.
"John Joslin" wrote in message
Wrong again Robert!
CS4 with the appropriate video card give a true rendering at all magnifications.
That statement is at the very best stupid. A pixel on your monitor isn’t going to magically shrink is side because of your video card. If you view a 1000 x 1000 pixel image at 50% you are only seeing half the pixels. There is no way around that and no way a video card even with anti-aliasing is going to be able to do anything to prevent that. So you statement is stupid and incorrect. And when seeing less than the actual number of pixels on screen you can not accurately judge sharpness or noise reduction or a number of other treatments that require accurate display of the image data.
If you have a video card that can magically reduce the size of the monitors display pixels please point it out. Since the monitors display pixels are set by the monitor hardware there is no such thing so again I am correct and you are not. The only thing the anti-aliasing does at the zoom levels other 100% is reduce jaggies, you are still not seeing all of the image data accurately on screen and even that anti-aliasing is adding faked image data to the display since that anti-aliasing isn’t actually in the image itself but display only (it doesn’t save or print and doesn’t modify the image data).
Robert
Curt, I think he knows that. 😉 CS4 32bit should see full 4GB of RAM on XP64. Due to how PS’ own memory management works, it will never fully use it, though, but it should allow you to set something like 3.7 GB in your preferences.
Mylenium
Curt, we are discussing the 32 bit version CS4 running on XP64, not XP.
Mylenium,
The registry change opened GPU support in both the 32 AND 64 bit versions.
Dar,
Does that enable smoothing at all magnification levels for you?
Thanks,
Jacqui
Yes, smoothing all the way up to 3200%. I have not done any actual work, and I have only used CS4 for a moment or two, so I have no real world time comparisons to non enabled or vs CS2. Having the GPU support enabled so far has only made things react differently, differently in an "oh that’s weird sort of way. Today I have to throw around some 100+MB files, so I will report back.
-TPM
Ok, so this opens all sorts of new questions. Before, PS didn’t use much of what modern video cards had to offer, so I have a basic X16 pci 256MB Nvidia based GT7900. In terms of an upgrade, I am unsure what is more important to the GPU support in CS4: Ram amount, DDR clock speed, Open GL version, stream processors, core clock? Any of these all of these?
TPM
Dar
Thank you for reporting your findings. I have an older video card (Quadro fx4500) so I am thinking of a similar hardware upgrade. Possibly the nVidia GTX 280.
I look forward to hearing how you get on with those 100MB+ files.
Jacqui
I’m going to be throwing around a 7gb file later and I’ll report back too.
OMG…The file loaded ( 45,000 x 12,000 pixels )in 4mins when it usually takes 14mins. Once loaded you CAN move it around quite freely and rotate it as if its a 1200 pixel file.
One thing I did notice is that when I zoom right in and out again the redraw in some parts/tiles of the image became corrupt with flashing pixels and blocks – this locked the system for a minute or so. I have just updated the drivers and will report if it happens again. Other than that it’s sweet – a worthy upgrade.
My system specs : q9650 @3ghz, 16gb ram, nvidia 8800gts ( latest drivers ) Vista x64, loads of hard drives and a couple of nice monitors….
One thing I did notice is that when I zoom right in and out again the redraw in some parts/tiles of the image became corrupt with flashing pixels and blocks
I have the same issue with a ASUS Nvidia 7900GTO. It does that in all programs though so I am not sure if I am losing my monitor or if my card is going away.
If you’re seeing corrupt tiles (that fix themselves if you zoom in/out), it could be the driver, or could be bad video RAM.
They don’t fix themselves, they get larger 🙂
Sounds like a video driver bug then.
This is a joke! how could they not support XP 64bit, that’s just slack!
What are Adobe doing anyway, all they seem to be doing is making Photoshop more sluggish and slower in every version.
CS2 for me is the best still.
For me it just gets faster and faster.
This is a joke! how could they not support XP 64bit, that’s just slack!
[..]
Adobe have to stop paying monkeys to write there software.
[..]
I thought that Adobe don’t officially support XP with CS4…
and I would hesitate personally before calling someone like Thomas Knoll a monkey.
Anthony.
ok i did as Mylenium said and added the reg key:
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Adobe\Photoshop\11.0]
"AllowOldGPUS"=dword:00000001
This allowed me to enable GPU support and it seems to work fine. The performance is now alot better, but still not as fast as CS2.
Sure the 3D tools and spin tool is fun but after using it a few time it gets boring. I would rather see pure speed increasements and larger file handling. I hope by CS5 they would get the performance on par with CS2.
In my opinion Photoshop is getting to bloated.
Which Video card is recommended by the users of CS4 on VU-64 to obtain the GPU support?
sjprg,
I run a ATI 4870 with 8.10 drivers with no problems on Vista Ultimate 64.
XP64 is not officially supported because it has a lot of bugs, not a lot of working drivers. Vista 64 has been out for a while, fixes most of the bugs and has more working drivers.
Even if you enable the GPU support on XP64 using the registry entries, you may be running in software emulation because your video card or its driver don’t support the operations in hardware.
I am running two ATI Radeon 1650 cards and am very happy with them. A single one for around $100 to $150 should do fine. PCI-Express on this end.
Robert
On Oct 16, 7:05 am, wrote:
Adobe says No OPenGL drivers in XP64? That isn’t the case is it?
No, it isn’t. OpenGL works just fine with the 32bit version, only the 64bit version does not support OpenGL.
Not sure why they couldn’t implement at least the 32bit version of CS4 with OGL on XP64
As per the above: They have. Your GPU just may not be supported, regardless, because Adobe considers it "old" (or takes it as a quick excuse to blame all the problems on you and walk away with clean hands, depending on how you see it). You can set a registry key to enable it (at your own risk). Save the below to a *.reg file, then double-click to import it into the registry.
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Adobe\Photoshop\11.0]
"AllowOldGPUS"=dword:00000001
I don’t have my packages yet, but the settings file may also be on the installer disk along with other legacy compatibility registry hacks as already done in the past.
Mylenium
Im telling you Right off the bat- THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP – I thought I’d never see GPU Acceleration on XP64
Chris Cox have you ever used XP 64bit? im guessing you haven’t coz if you have you would not be saying it has alot of bugs.
XP 64 is a rock solid OS, IMO its the fastest and most stable OS available today. Also there is alot of working driver for XP 64 now. I now only run XP 64 as everything i need works 100% on it.
Also by doing the registry hack dose alow hardware acceleration. XP 64 is more then capable of running CS4, i just don’t know why Adobe didn’t support it.
I don’t know why ppl still have this thought that 64bit dosn’t have alot of support. Im able to run almost anything on 64bit these days even including games that state they don’t support XP 64bit.
Do you have any idea who your questioning?
Bob
I’m not saying betaver9 is right, but arguing from authority doesn’t carry much weight.
I personally find it odd that Adobe releases new software that doesn’t work properly with an OS or vid cards that work fine with their own older programs, and most other programs I have used, and yet somehow that is an OS or video driver "bug"?
There may be a valid reason for looking at it that way, but I can’t see it from here.
b
I agree with betaver9, XP-64 is very stable, even by comparison with the 32-bit version. I run heaps of PS plugins which all work flawlessly. I have printers (3) and a scanner, all with 64-bit drivers.
I have not ever installed any software designed for XP-32 that doesn’t work with XP-64. I currently have Quark Xpress 7, Corel X4, CS3.3 design premium, Lightroom 2.1, Qimage, Lumapix Fotofusion, Silkypix, Wacom tablet, MS Office, Xara, Opera, Firefox and IE, Cyberlink PowerDVD, Roxio s/w, Plug-ins: Neat Image, KPT collection, Alien skin eye candy, Auto f/x dreamsuite and page edges, Redfied and Kodak airbrush.
I run with 24 processes after startup and could get that down even further. No errors or warnings currently in system or application events. The system is easy to keep clean and lean. I have a Apple cinema display 30" working with it.
I cannot remember the last time this system actually crashed. Never mind a BSOD. Yes, I have had glitches – no system is perfect. But compared to XP-32 this system is a dream. Understandably I do not want to "upgrade" to Vista. Maybe the next 64-bit iteration of Windows, but not Vista.
I am well aware of who Chris Cox is. BTW, thanks Chris for popping in here on behalf of Adobe. Looking forward to installing CS4 Design Premium shortly.
betaver – yes, attempting to use XP64 is what drove me to Vista. We used it, we found the bugs, Microsoft isn’t going to fix the bugs, we had to give up, end of story.
Brett – yes, that happens. If the new software uses the driver slightly differently from the old version, the user may not be able to tell the difference. But the bug is *way* too frequently in the drivers. It is valid, because we know what the code is doing, and frequently we have debugged the problem(s) — but some third party vendors are quicker to respond to paying customers complaints than when we contact them and show them the bug (and some don’t even have a way for us to report the bugs).
Hi Chris, thanks for explaining.
b
attempting to use XP64 is what drove me to Vista. We used it, we found the bugs, Microsoft isn’t going to fix the bugs, we had to give up, end of story.
Thank you Chris for explaining.
