Does anybody know the logic behind the fact that PS7 users can’t upgrade to CS4? I can’t believe that Adobe doesn’t have the IT knowledge to enable CS4 to be backwards compatible. One person suggested that I upgrade to CS2 or CS3 and then upgrade again to CS4. That will, of course, save me some money, but why on earth should I have to do that – it’s still expensive? I think we all know the answer to that!!
Could I remind Adobe that we are in a "credit crunch" and that perhaps if their software was cheaper they might sell more. Or is that perhaps too logical?
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Because customers who do upgrade often deserve to be treated better than those that don’t.
I don’t think so. customers are customers. i used to think it was very classy of adobe to update everyone who owned any version.
"A customer is the most important visitor on our premises. He is not dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an interruption in our work – he is the purpose of it. We are not doing him a favour by serving him. He is doing us a favour by giving us the opportunity to serve him."
Why are software companies supposed to be different than other companies? Airlines treat frequent fliers better but nobody says boo about it.
Get your oil changed 10 times at LubeExpress and get the next one free. Use certain credit cards and get miles or cash back. But heaven forbid a software company treats regular customer better and they’re evil.
no i moved out of jersey because of the taxes and basic cost of … everything. it’s half price here in north east pa, bout an hour and a half from where i was. 🙂
and what’s traffic? people freak out up here when avg speed slows down to 45mph!!! lol!
Quark always charged full price if you didn’t pay for the latest upgrade. Adobe was one of the rare companies that offered to update any version of their software. They are still being more than reasonable. They still allow you to update every third version at this point.
Thank you Adobe and ____________ all the whiners in this thread!
Mar 22, 2009
maybe pamela e jones will go spend another 700 bux to get the new photoshop. maybe not. <AdobeShrug>
Adobe was one of the rare companies that offered to update any version of their software
which is one reason, imo, why they always engendered such fanatical loyalty. by behaving like the quarks and the microsofts, they’ve left themselves open to a "use whatever" sw might come along mentality, rather than "give me adobe or give me death!". 🙂
They are still being more than reasonable. They still allow you to update every third version at this point.
I do hand it to them for that.
"Thank you Adobe and" A FREE UPGRADE "all the whiners in this thread!"
Well Adobe has certainly affected other companies. Quark updates are a lot less expensive and I think you can skip a version, but then again, Quark is desperate to compete.
Yeah, I thought the "______" would be more appropriate than what I was thinking at that time.
I remember when ID first came out V1 was sadly inept, so they came out with V1.5 which initially was offered at $129. I lead the charge that we shouldn’t have to pay to get a workable version and eventually it was offered at $29. I was called some very nasty things on the ID forum for starting that thread and I was being on my best Canadian behaviour. So Adobe does listen to its customers.
Or, maybe she should deal with Adobe like she would any other company that she hasn’t bought anything from in about 8 years…
Call them up and find out what they can do for her…as you say, in this economy perhaps they can offer her a discount on a new CS4 license. It can’t hurt to ask. If she’s real nice and gets the right person you never know.
But seriously, why do you feel this way, Dave? I understand wanting to be treated fairly but that’s a two way street. Has she been a loyal customer? The answer is quite obviously no.
The fact that you, or any other regular upgrader would take this stance surprises me. Here’s why.
The Adobe installers are crappy enough as it is. Can you imagine if they had to verify installation media and serial numbers that could be up to 20 years old? I know the argument that’s coming…just have the person call Adobe.
The glitch in that argument is that you need a human being to handle that…and that costs money, which raises the price of the software for EVERYONE. Would you, as a loyal customer who’s purchased every upgrade, be willing to underwrite that cost? What if Adobe allowed all previous owners to upgrade to CS4 for $239.00 instead of $199.00. Now…how do you feel about it?
People are complaining enough about the cost as it is. Would you then jump in to chastise Adobe for jacking up the price? You can’t have it both ways…either you want loyal customers to be treated as such or you don’t, but allowing every who’s ever purchased a product from any company to get the same treatment as regular loyal customers just makes no sense from a customer prospective or a business prospective.
Photoshop 7 should have included a warning stating the user must upgrade with-in three new versions or user would be forced to pay full price. In other words, warn purchaser BEFORE it is too late. Too logical? Q
When PS CS4 first came out Adobe gave a limited time, on their website, to upgrade before the full price was the only option. In my opinion there should have not been a time limit. It should have been: Hey peoples, PS CS4 is the last time for a upgrade from PS7 or CS (as a example). But this upgrade path may need a set time period to make the bean counters happy.
Then this year Adobe can send out a e-mail or snail mail to lets say the users of CS products (as a example) telling them CS5 will be the last time you can upgrade. No time limit. Throw in Lightroom 2 (3 maybe this next coming round) at reduced cost to sweeten the deal.
"On the other hand, how logical is it to buy hundreds of dollars worth of software without doing some research first?"
Well, in some cases, I’m sure customers that purchased Photoshop 7 (and previous versions) did exactly that. At which time they were lead to believe that they would be able to upgrade at ANY time without penalty.
@JJ, I tell my customers that they may purchase reprints, for a set price, for one year, from the date the photography was done. After that year the prices may be higher. They know BEFOREHAND that this is so. I don’t wait to inform them until the year is up. Only fair way to do it. Tell Yoko I said "Hi"… Q
my point still stands i’m afraid, they were basing their purchasing decisions on 7 year old information. Would you buy now a Geforce4 Ti because back in 2002 someone told you that that’s the best you can buy?
When PS CS4 first came out Adobe gave a limited time, on their website, to upgrade before the full price was the only option.
Nonsense…it was plainly obvious when CS3 came out and PS 7 was the earliest version you could upgrade from that when CS4 came out, PS7 would be dropped from the eligible versions.
What would you say if this thread was about upgrading from PS6 or PS5?
This is no different than the whining from people who buy the new version after it’s been out for 16 months and then cry when a new version is released and they don’t get it for free.
I do more research on a coffee maker than these people do on large software purchases.
At which time they were lead to believe that they would be able to upgrade at ANY time without penalty.
Ridiculous. Just because that was the policy in effect at the time is no proof that it would continue. In fact, the current policy has been in effect since CS3 was released which means our OP did no research at all over the last two years.
Good point, however you still have to draw the line somewhere. You can’t expect companies to know 7 years in advance what the upgrade path of their software will be so why are people expecting it to be the same?
I don’t hear people complaining that they can’t upgrade from Windows Me to Windows Vista so why are people complaining about not being able to upgrade from PS7 to CS4?
I fully respect you, and your knowledge, but to say I’m ridiculous is unfair. Please keep in mind that not every user of Photoshop spends time in these forums. I have a friend that has a busy photography studio. He works long hours.
He is pretty intelligent. He builds computers and knows his way around Photoshop very well. He keeps up on all things pertaining to photography equipment. He had no clue that he needed to upgrade to CS3 from 7, or lose his right to upgrade. Will you at least admit that I have a point, and that it is not ridiculous?
Upgrade pricing is a benefit given to users of former versions so they don’t have to pay full retail. It makes sense. They already have a version with x number of features, so they only will be paying for the additional features in the new version.
Incremental version pricing looks at the fact that a version 7 user will be getting a whole lot more new features than a CS3 version user. Why should they not pay a lot more.
I am happy with Adobe allowing us to skip one or two versions of the software, in cases where the new features are not those I need. I usually skip one version.
(I remember upgrading to Quark 3.3 from Quark 2.0. They made me pay for Quark 3.0 upgrade, 3.1 upgrade, and 3.2 upgrade. To make it even worse, to reinstall (which I had to do regularly) I had to load each version, and update to the next version, in order.
You’re right about the ridiculous remark and I apologize.
You say he keeps up with all things pertaining to photography equipment…well unless he’s still using a darkroom, I would include Photoshop and a very good computer in that.
In short, it’s his business to know these things and when you add in the fact that he had a year and half to find out and he gets no sympathy from me. He skipped three upgrades…that’s $600 saved.
What Adobe is doing makes perfect business sense…pay now or pay later. Again, I don’t understand why software makers get held to a different standard than other industries.
Robert Levine, It’s all good… No problem. Just want to explain that I believe Adobe has the right to change their upgrade policy. It just would have been better (fairer) had it been more widely publicized, IMO. And I do see the points that you, Zeno and Don make. Peace, Q
Yeah. I can see them tightening the noose to two versions back. The problem with forcing continued upgrades each time is that hardware upgrades often have to follow software, and there is no way you can upgrade hardware every 18 months. Hell, at my college I am lucky if I can get IT to install something in that length of time.
(A coworker had a new laptop that spent the first 6-9 months of its life sitting in a box in the IT area, waiting for someone to install it. The machine was installed, and the one year warranty wore out a few months later).
That’s how AutoCAD upgrades work, plus they come every 12 months and they’re 600 bucks, so subscription winds up being cheaper. After 3 missed upgrades you pay full price (4 grand) unless you can beg them to get ‘legacy’ pricing – 30% off and a mandatory subscription.
where each upgrade costs what it would have cost to do continual upgrades.
I’d like PS to offer upgrades from 1.0 as well,but are your 20 year customers entitled to 1989 prices?
depends. do you want them as a customer 20 years from now? or are they only worth fussing over for "this quarter"? again i say, photoshop or any app will not remain "on top" forever. just as quark couldn’t do it. when that "ever" comes, a lot will depend on customer loyalty. if you’ve already capitalized out all your customer loyalty then…
Again Dave, it’s a flawed argument. You define any customer no matter how small as loyal…I define it as a repeat customer who upgrades every version or every other.
As a true loyal customer (not just of Adobe’s but of any company) I expect to be treated well and that just might mean treating someone who’s not so loyal not as well.
Quark’s problems went well beyond their pricing structure.
I tend to agree with Bob on this one, but I notice that nobody has mentioned that the upgrade policy change only occurred after Adobe acquired Macromedia. It seems that many of Adobe’s policies we don’t like started with this acquisition.
It seem like the only fair way for upgrades is to do a sliding scale. Say $150 for upgrading from last version, $300 from version before that, and so for down the line. By the time you are 4 editions back you would be paying full price.
What Bob said. Retailers hate excess SKUs. Having to stock five different upgrades to CS5 would drive them nuts. Adobe themselves could do it, but they are pretty committed to supporting retailers (the few legitimate ones, that is). I suspect they get a big chunk of their sales through those channels.
The fact is that it would be nearly impossible to manage all of the old versions…it was fine when there were only 5 or so earlier versions to worry about but that’s not the case anymore.
you seem to forget that version 6 and before had a different serial that contained 17 letters and numbers. The more I think about this probably has more to do with the old upgrades to Photoshop 7, CS, and CS2. When you upgraded from any of the 6 and lower you had to call Adobe for help because the old serials did not fit into new 24 digit format.
John, I agree with you – we know the real reason. They can call me a "tightwad", but I earn very little money. I earn even less in this credit crunch, which has been brought about by GREED. But, if anybody out there has any spare cash, send it along my way. It will be gratefully received. Loyalty is a two-way thing. Treat people fairly and they will be loyal. A fact which seems to escape "big business" – and look what a mess they’ve all got themselves into!!
Why should I not pursue a hobby, just because I have little money. Is photography ONLY a rich person’s hobby? Obviously it is. Incidentally, we don’t all have the opportunity to spend our time on Forums, where we might see these ridiculous rules. Also, in the UK the software is double the price of that in the USA. As regards Microsoft Vista, lots of UK Companies are not upgrading, because their software won’t run on Vista. That’s why Windows XP is still being sold to businesses in the UK – People Power!!
you’re missing the point that her first choice (and she’s an archtype in this example. there are thousands like her) was adobe and now it’s not. losing one customer is no big deal. losing thousands isn’t. that’s a net loss for adobe.
Again, you’re really failing to look at the big picture, Dave. What if keeping her (and others like her) caused Adobe to have to raise prices across the board to support them? Then you’d have the truly loyal customer up in arms and looking elsewhere.
There would be a need for new, more complicated installers and/or customer service people. And let’s not forget the people who were bitching and moaning when they upgraded to C2 from PS 5 and had to call in every time they installed.
Would the "loyal customer" stand for having to wait on hold for an installation code or come here to vent? And let’s not forget the people that would be complaining about the new interface and how Adobe forced them to upgrade because the version they’re using only worked on Windows 98.
Sorry, but this is one of times that it’s just better to let them walk away. You can’t keep everyone happy.
Dave. What if keeping her (and others like her) caused Adobe to have to raise prices across the board to support them?
you mean they’re not doing that already? no they keep raising prices to keep their stock prices up. and executive salaries. and bonuses. do you really believe that they raise prices because Pamela E Jones hasn’t upgraded since versions 7? well then bobby, have i got a bridge to show you. right over the river. you can see it from the turnpike…
You can’t keep everyone happy.
that’s a great slogan if your goal is to drive yourself out of business…
i’d rather stick with (repost): "A customer is the most important visitor on our premises. He is not dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an interruption in our work – he is the purpose of it. We are not doing him a favour by serving him. He is doing us a favour by giving us the opportunity to serve him."
Ghandi
I don’t think he’s using the patch, but it had to be said.
Elements doesn’t have Masks (apart from the cheat), Lab Colour, Curves, Pen Tool etc. so it’s hardly the same. Incidentally, I do have Elements 5 for the RAW facility, that’s why I haven’t upgraded PS7. So, I’m not loyal! How come I also bought Elements 5 then?
I wonder what part of "can’t afford to upgrade every year" people don’t understand. When money is no object, we can all afford to be loyal and condescending. Some of us have more urgent priorities. Welcome to the real World!
This whole discussion reminds me of people trying to RMA video cards. Most of the video card vendors request a receipt otherwise they won’t exchange your video card. The thing is, if you call them up and tell them your problem they’ll usually(depending on the vendor of course) let you RMA the card(they’ll tell you something like "Add a note in the package that says that <insert name> has agreed to the RMA")
what you’re not comprehending is the damage [a company] does to their brand when they implement customer unfriendly policies. especially when they CHANGE them from formerly very customer friendly policies.
contrary to what some people may think, costs a lot of money.
no. it doesn’t, no matter what some people may think. 😉
It is a business, Dave and needs to be run as such. Whether you agree or not, every business is run in way to maximize profits. You don’t do that by catering to people who spend $200 every eight to ten years.
You can say that again. There are certainly not many legit copies around. I agree with you and Dave.
As regards loyalty, how many people were loyal to their Banks? Look what happened there. Businesses only care about one thing – getting your money and nothing else. Was always true, is true now and always will be. I’ve worked for multinational companies in the past and the only thing that concerns them is profit and shareholders. Sad, but true.
Nobody said upgrade every year, but upgrading every three versions would force you to budget less than one dollar a week.
This is nothing personal…it’s strictly business. Keeping an upgrade path back more than three versions, contrary to what some people may think, costs a lot of money.
I was looking to upgrade from MMX2004 to CS3 Master Collection, at that time it was $1999 but I didn’t have the money. When I went to upgrade to CS4 MC it only cost $1599. Those dirty, greedy Adobe SOBs. How dare they charge me less this time, do they think I’m cheap? How dare they insult me like that? Bob do you have some contact where I can complain to head office about their shoddy treatment of me?
And imagine the insult when I upgrade from CS4MC to CS7MC for the same price as sequential upgrades and take advantage of all that R&D without additional charge. Those nervy Adobe SOBs. How dare they treat me like this. I’m not cheap, what will my business client think of me? Hopefully this treatment of me by Adobe does not affect how my clients view me, that somehow I will cheapen their business needs by using products like that.
I am terribly insulted by this treatment of me by Adobe and want to complain immediately. Bob, please send me the contact information, I’ll show those greedy SOBs. I am totally in a tizzy now, you, you Adobe you!
Adobe should offer an upgrade amnesty program for everyone who has PS7 and older, rolling over to CS and older with the next release and so on. This would be a ONE TIME event, allowing those who were unaware (or cheap or lazy or in a coma for 5 years) to get their upgrade at a reasonable cost, maybe even with a $50 surcharge.
After that, you’re SOL if you let the upgrade cycle pass you by.
What about the people that are in a coma when they make the amnesty offer. You’ll have all of them whining when they miss the deadline. where do you finally stop?
People who have PS7 should be able to upgrade to CS4 by paying the upgrade price to CS1 (whatever that was), plus the upgrade price from CS to CS4, plus a small amount ($50 or so) as a penalty for not paying attention. People with older versions would have to pay for the additional upgrades missed.
Such an upgrade would only be possible through Adobe store, since retailers wouldn’t want to handle the extra versions. The upgrades would only be available electronically, so additional packaging costs are not involved.
What about the people that are in a coma when they make the amnesty offer.
We shoot people who ask questions like that in these parts, mister.
Anyway, maybe Adobe could make good use of the registration info for once and send out a helpful notice. ‘Course it won’t help you, being shot and all…
Yesterday I saw an upgrade on a Website for Adobe CS4. It was an upgrade from Elements 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7 to CS4. Not Photoshop, but Elements. I can’t believe this is legitimate. I’m going to try and find the Website again and see if there is a telephone number to ring. Seems too good to be true to me. Better still, I’ll look on this Adobe Site and see if such an upgrade exists.
That is true. However it is only a $100 discount off the normal price. It is a route for the Elements user to get to the full program that considers that they probably paid $100 or more for Elements.
Sometimes there are some deals to be had. I upgraded from Elements to CS 2 for $299.00. It was offered by Adobe to Canon/Epson/Microtec scanner customers. Keep your eyes open.
— James wrote in message
Yesterday I saw an upgrade on a Website for Adobe CS4. It was an upgrade from Elements 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7 to CS4. Not Photoshop, but Elements. I can’t believe this is legitimate. I’m going to try and find the Website again and see if there is a telephone number to ring. Seems too good to be true to me. Better still, I’ll look on this Adobe Site and see if such an upgrade exists.
