Is support for freehand drawing better in recent Photoshop?

In article ,
williamc wrote:

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

No. There is better tablet support now.

But you can answer the question yourself by downloading the full version for a 30-day trial period.

Here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=photosh op&loc=en_us

On 5/12/2010 2:25 PM, John Stafford wrote:

In article ,
williamc wrote:

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

No. There is better tablet support now.

But you can answer the question yourself by downloading the full version for a 30-day trial period.

Here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=photosh op&loc=en_us

Ok. So, I’m guessing the pressure sensitivity is much improved. The old brush line was almost like a marker in appearance.

You’re right, though, the only way to really tell is to try it.

–williamc

williamc wrote:

On 5/12/2010 2:25 PM, John Stafford wrote:

In article ,
williamc wrote:

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

No. There is better tablet support now.

But you can answer the question yourself by downloading the full version for a 30-day trial period.

Here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=photosh op&loc=en_us

Ok. So, I’m guessing the pressure sensitivity is much improved. The old brush line was almost like a marker in appearance.

You’re right, though, the only way to really tell is to try it.
–williamc

Before you giving it a try I may be able to give you some general information just incase you may be so disappointed. In general

– There is or should be NO DIFFERNCE because drawing is drawing, there is no magical able the basic drawing stroke.

– BUT each newer version of Photoshop often add newer or more feature/option to the existing tools. So the brush is still the same brush, but one version offers special Brush, one offers History Art Brush, one offers the combination of all previous version including newer option/feature like being able to add or change the effect of the brush stroke.

And with the right tool and talent you may be able to use Photoshop to draw a much better painting and quicker than specific program designed for drawing/painting.

Before you giving it a try I may be able to give you some general information just incase you may be so disappointed. In general
– There is or should be NO DIFFERNCE because drawing is drawing, there is no magical able the basic drawing stroke.

– BUT each newer version of Photoshop often add newer or more feature/option to the existing tools. So the brush is still the same brush, but one version offers special Brush, one offers History Art Brush, one offers the combination of all previous version including newer option/feature like being able to add or change the effect of the brush stroke.
And with the right tool and talent you may be able to use Photoshop to draw a much better painting and quicker than specific program designed for drawing/painting.

Understood. But PS6 offers control over only the following parameters afaik: brush size, opacity and general Photoshop fill mode (normal, multiply, dissolve, color etc.), plus a check box for wet edges and a set of 3 params for "brush dynamics" that have some usefulness but are pretty limited. e.g. fade will feather out your stroke but you still can’t feather it in.

In general, somebody who can draw on paper won’t be as pleased with the result or be able to draw as well in Photoshop as on paper. Newer software (the first one I ever noticed that had some improved brush dynamics was Fractal Design Expressions and maybe Painter?) have add’l params that can be set which affect line.

Manga Studio which I’m evaluating now has the following params for its pens: pen type (a variety), size, opacity, stroke in, stroke out and correction, plus the ability to set brush shape, angle and thickness.

The key params for what I’m talking about are stroke in/out and correction. It’s not exactly like drawing with a sable brush on toothy paper but it gives you the ability to get a similar result.

So, I guess what I’m looking for is something with the nice color and channels support of Photoshop along with more advanced drawing tools.

In article ,
Joel wrote:

williamc wrote:

On 5/12/2010 2:25 PM, John Stafford wrote:

In article ,
williamc wrote:

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

No. There is better tablet support now.

But you can answer the question yourself by downloading the full version for a 30-day trial period.

Here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=photosh op&loc=en_us

Ok. So, I’m guessing the pressure sensitivity is much improved. The old brush line was almost like a marker in appearance.

You’re right, though, the only way to really tell is to try it.
–williamc

Before you giving it a try I may be able to give you some general information just incase you may be so disappointed. In general
– There is or should be NO DIFFERNCE because drawing is drawing, there is no magical able the basic drawing stroke.

Did not Photoshop add the facility to accommodate _pressure_ differences with the brush? IOW, a tablet that sensed pressure would be compatible with Photoshop.

williamc wrote:

Before you giving it a try I may be able to give you some general information just incase you may be so disappointed. In general
– There is or should be NO DIFFERNCE because drawing is drawing, there is no magical able the basic drawing stroke.

– BUT each newer version of Photoshop often add newer or more feature/option to the existing tools. So the brush is still the same brush, but one version offers special Brush, one offers History Art Brush, one offers the combination of all previous version including newer option/feature like being able to add or change the effect of the brush stroke.
And with the right tool and talent you may be able to use Photoshop to draw a much better painting and quicker than specific program designed for drawing/painting.

Understood. But PS6 offers control over only the following parameters afaik: brush size, opacity and general Photoshop fill mode (normal, multiply, dissolve, color etc.), plus a check box for wet edges and a set of 3 params for "brush dynamics" that have some usefulness but are pretty limited. e.g. fade will feather out your stroke but you still can’t feather it in.

Hmmmm I don’t remember all small detail and all options/features of just the BRUSH tool(s). But I do remember it took me severak years to master the brushing, and still learning as well as don’t use or don’t have time to learn the newer options.

In general, somebody who can draw on paper won’t be as pleased with the result or be able to draw as well in Photoshop as on paper. Newer software (the first one I ever noticed that had some improved brush dynamics was Fractal Design Expressions and maybe Painter?) have add’l params that can be set which affect line.

I sure can agree with you about those. But remember one who wants to use the program as a drawing tool then one must understand the limitation, the basic understanding of what one gonna face.

I don’t know what the Fractal Design Expressions does (I know what Fractal but don’t know about the program), and same with the PAINTER, it depends on what type of painter, painting, and version of Photoshop as well as the addiotnal tool and skill. I can say that with my very limited knowledge of Corel Painter X, I can see that Corel may show some fancier displaying, but for the real job I would chose Photoshop and History Art Brush in heart beep.

I don’t use Photoshop for painting, especially drawing. But I used to paint on canvas so I do have some real painting experience, so I may do some painting with Photoshop (learning the History Art Brush) once every few months, and I reallike the result.

Manga Studio which I’m evaluating now has the following params for its pens: pen type (a variety), size, opacity, stroke in, stroke out and correction, plus the ability to set brush shape, angle and thickness.
The key params for what I’m talking about are stroke in/out and correction. It’s not exactly like drawing with a sable brush on toothy paper but it gives you the ability to get a similar result.
So, I guess what I’m looking for is something with the nice color and channels support of Photoshop along with more advanced drawing tools.

If you know Manga Studio so well then I would suggest to stick with Manga Studio. And if you want to use Photoshop to do all the things you want and probably even more, then try NOT to compare Photoshop with Manga Studio or any other program, but spending FEW YEARS mastering Photoshop then you will have what you want.

John Stafford wrote:

In article ,
Joel wrote:

williamc wrote:

On 5/12/2010 2:25 PM, John Stafford wrote:

In article ,
williamc wrote:

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

No. There is better tablet support now.

But you can answer the question yourself by downloading the full version for a 30-day trial period.

Here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=photosh op&loc=en_us

Ok. So, I’m guessing the pressure sensitivity is much improved. The old brush line was almost like a marker in appearance.

You’re right, though, the only way to really tell is to try it.
–williamc

Before you giving it a try I may be able to give you some general information just incase you may be so disappointed. In general
– There is or should be NO DIFFERNCE because drawing is drawing, there is no magical able the basic drawing stroke.

Did not Photoshop add the facility to accommodate _pressure_ differences with the brush? IOW, a tablet that sensed pressure would be compatible with Photoshop.

I do have Photoshop and Wacom tablet, and for several decades using pen I have read so many about pressure. But I only did few testing on the Tablet setting, Photoshop, Corel Painter etc.. and I saw they all work well. But I don’t use Photoshop for painting, and I don’t use pressure on my painting style so I don’t pay much attention to the pressure.

My current Wacom has 1024 pressure sensitive, but I don’t down very hard or barely touch the surface. It has tilting sensitive too, but I don’t use it either. The other reason I doùnt pay much attention to it cuz I doùnt feel it can replace the real brush, real color, or true feeling of real painting. It does have something real painting doesn’t have, so I just have whateever fun it has to offer.

"williamc" wrote in message

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

I stopped doing full-time graphics work back around the turn of the century and have not kept up with the latest S/W. I still use Photoshop
6.0.1, Illustratior 8 (or Freehand 9) and Fireworks 4 for graphics. But
now I need to do some graphics-intensive work now that could probably best be described as cartoony illustration.

I’m researching contemporary software and am evaluating Manga Studio 4. Its comics-related features are nice to have, but I don’t really need them. However, I do really like the way their pen tool (which would equate to the photoshop brush tool) smooths out the hand-drawn line and results in something that looks a lot like drawing with a sable brush and ink on paper.

Using MS made me realize that that’s one of the things I really want in a program, but not sure if the later Photoshop made any improvements in this area. I think the first program that did something like this was the Fractal Design Expressions (vector art that looked like raster art) which I also owned and liked back in the day. BTW, the color support in Manga Studio is not very good. I think a lot of its users export PSD and color in PS.

Photoshop 6 has everything I want except for versatile drawing support. If CS4/5 has improved, parameterized drawing tools I’d certainly buy it, despite it’s being somewhat overpriced.

Creature House Expression is the thing which will fill your needs. Learning curve may be a little steep, but there really is nothing in other software to touch the strokes.

Grab Expression E3 free:

Creature House Expression 3 is an innovative vector-based illustration and graphics tool that provides exciting creative capabilities for designers working in print, web, video, and interactive mediums.

Microsoft acquired the Creature House technology and development team in 2003. As a service to the many loyal users of Expression, a free download version is available to existing users of the product for either Microsoft Windows or Mac OS. Please follow this link to complete the registration survey and download the software:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/expression-design/Defaul t.aspx

Richard

On 5/14/2010 5:38 AM, Richard wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

I stopped doing full-time graphics work back around the turn of the century and have not kept up with the latest S/W. I still use Photoshop
6.0.1, Illustratior 8 (or Freehand 9) and Fireworks 4 for graphics. But
now I need to do some graphics-intensive work now that could probably best be described as cartoony illustration.

I’m researching contemporary software and am evaluating Manga Studio 4. Its comics-related features are nice to have, but I don’t really need them. However, I do really like the way their pen tool (which would equate to the photoshop brush tool) smooths out the hand-drawn line and results in something that looks a lot like drawing with a sable brush and ink on paper.

Using MS made me realize that that’s one of the things I really want in a program, but not sure if the later Photoshop made any improvements in this area. I think the first program that did something like this was the Fractal Design Expressions (vector art that looked like raster art) which I also owned and liked back in the day. BTW, the color support in Manga Studio is not very good. I think a lot of its users export PSD and color in PS.

Photoshop 6 has everything I want except for versatile drawing support. If CS4/5 has improved, parameterized drawing tools I’d certainly buy it, despite it’s being somewhat overpriced.

Creature House Expression is the thing which will fill your needs. Learning curve may be a little steep, but there really is nothing in other software to touch the strokes.

Grab Expression E3 free:

Creature House Expression 3 is an innovative vector-based illustration and graphics tool that provides exciting creative capabilities for designers working in print, web, video, and interactive mediums.

Microsoft acquired the Creature House technology and development team in 2003. As a service to the many loyal users of Expression, a free download version is available to existing users of the product for either Microsoft Windows or Mac OS. Please follow this link to complete the registration survey and download the software:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/expression-design/Defaul t.aspx
Richard

Thanks, I’ll check that out!

"williamc" wrote in message

On 5/14/2010 5:38 AM, Richard wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

I stopped doing full-time graphics work back around the turn of the century and have not kept up with the latest S/W. I still use Photoshop
6.0.1, Illustratior 8 (or Freehand 9) and Fireworks 4 for graphics. But
now I need to do some graphics-intensive work now that could probably best be described as cartoony illustration.

I’m researching contemporary software and am evaluating Manga Studio 4. Its comics-related features are nice to have, but I don’t really need them. However, I do really like the way their pen tool (which would equate to the photoshop brush tool) smooths out the hand-drawn line and results in something that looks a lot like drawing with a sable brush and ink on paper.

Using MS made me realize that that’s one of the things I really want in a program, but not sure if the later Photoshop made any improvements in this area. I think the first program that did something like this was the Fractal Design Expressions (vector art that looked like raster art) which I also owned and liked back in the day. BTW, the color support in Manga Studio is not very good. I think a lot of its users export PSD and color in PS.

Photoshop 6 has everything I want except for versatile drawing support. If CS4/5 has improved, parameterized drawing tools I’d certainly buy it, despite it’s being somewhat overpriced.

Creature House Expression is the thing which will fill your needs. Learning
curve may be a little steep, but there really is nothing in other software
to touch the strokes.

Grab Expression E3 free:

Creature House Expression 3 is an innovative vector-based illustration and
graphics tool that provides exciting creative capabilities for designers working in print, web, video, and interactive mediums.

Microsoft acquired the Creature House technology and development team in 2003. As a service to the many loyal users of Expression, a free download version is available to existing users of the product for either Microsoft
Windows or Mac OS. Please follow this link to complete the registration survey and download the software:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/expression-design/Defaul t.aspx
Richard

Thanks, I’ll check that out!

YVW.
See here for examples of waht can be done with it:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=expression+creature+house

Richard

On 5/14/2010 12:44 PM, Richard wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

On 5/14/2010 5:38 AM, Richard wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

I stopped doing full-time graphics work back around the turn of the century and have not kept up with the latest S/W. I still use Photoshop
6.0.1, Illustratior 8 (or Freehand 9) and Fireworks 4 for graphics. But
now I need to do some graphics-intensive work now that could probably best be described as cartoony illustration.

I’m researching contemporary software and am evaluating Manga Studio 4. Its comics-related features are nice to have, but I don’t really need them. However, I do really like the way their pen tool (which would equate to the photoshop brush tool) smooths out the hand-drawn line and results in something that looks a lot like drawing with a sable brush and ink on paper.

Using MS made me realize that that’s one of the things I really want in a program, but not sure if the later Photoshop made any improvements in this area. I think the first program that did something like this was the Fractal Design Expressions (vector art that looked like raster art) which I also owned and liked back in the day. BTW, the color support in Manga Studio is not very good. I think a lot of its users export PSD and color in PS.

Photoshop 6 has everything I want except for versatile drawing support. If CS4/5 has improved, parameterized drawing tools I’d certainly buy it, despite it’s being somewhat overpriced.

Creature House Expression is the thing which will fill your needs. Learning
curve may be a little steep, but there really is nothing in other software
to touch the strokes.

Grab Expression E3 free:

Creature House Expression 3 is an innovative vector-based illustration and
graphics tool that provides exciting creative capabilities for designers working in print, web, video, and interactive mediums.

Microsoft acquired the Creature House technology and development team in 2003. As a service to the many loyal users of Expression, a free download version is available to existing users of the product for either Microsoft
Windows or Mac OS. Please follow this link to complete the registration survey and download the software:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/expression-design/Defaul t.aspx
Richard

Thanks, I’ll check that out!

YVW.
See here for examples of waht can be done with it:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=expression+creature+house
Richard

Aha! So this is the grandchild of the old Fractal Design Expression, which I owned back in the day. I think I did look at this on the Microsoft site a while ago but didn’t follow up when I saw that it wasn’t covered by my MSDN subscription.

For everybody’s information, it looks like they’re selling it for $350 for registered Adobe users…

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Upgrade.aspx

–williamc

"williamc" wrote in message

On 5/14/2010 12:44 PM, Richard wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

On 5/14/2010 5:38 AM, Richard wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

Question; does the brush tool in recent Photoshop function basically like the brush tool in PS 6.0.1?

I stopped doing full-time graphics work back around the turn of the century and have not kept up with the latest S/W. I still use Photoshop
6.0.1, Illustratior 8 (or Freehand 9) and Fireworks 4 for graphics. But
now I need to do some graphics-intensive work now that could probably best be described as cartoony illustration.

I’m researching contemporary software and am evaluating Manga Studio
4.
Its comics-related features are nice to have, but I don’t really need them. However, I do really like the way their pen tool (which would equate to the photoshop brush tool) smooths out the hand-drawn line and
results in something that looks a lot like drawing with a sable brush and ink on paper.

Using MS made me realize that that’s one of the things I really want in
a program, but not sure if the later Photoshop made any improvements in
this area. I think the first program that did something like this was the Fractal Design Expressions (vector art that looked like raster art)
which I also owned and liked back in the day. BTW, the color support in
Manga Studio is not very good. I think a lot of its users export PSD and
color in PS.

Photoshop 6 has everything I want except for versatile drawing support.
If CS4/5 has improved, parameterized drawing tools I’d certainly buy it,
despite it’s being somewhat overpriced.

Creature House Expression is the thing which will fill your needs. Learning
curve may be a little steep, but there really is nothing in other software
to touch the strokes.

Grab Expression E3 free:

Creature House Expression 3 is an innovative vector-based illustration and
graphics tool that provides exciting creative capabilities for designers
working in print, web, video, and interactive mediums.

Microsoft acquired the Creature House technology and development team in
2003. As a service to the many loyal users of Expression, a free download
version is available to existing users of the product for either Microsoft
Windows or Mac OS. Please follow this link to complete the registration survey and download the software:

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/expression-design/Defaul t.aspx
Richard

Thanks, I’ll check that out!

YVW.
See here for examples of waht can be done with it:
http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=expression+creature+house
Richard

Aha! So this is the grandchild of the old Fractal Design Expression, which I owned back in the day. I think I did look at this on the Microsoft site a while ago but didn’t follow up when I saw that it wasn’t covered by my MSDN subscription.

For everybody’s information, it looks like they’re selling it for $350 for registered Adobe users…

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Upgrade.aspx

No. That’s the Expression Studio. The Expression E3 part of studio is the program Expression Designer. That is a significantly different beast to the Creature House Expression E3. The original link I posted is to fully functional free versions for PC and Mac. It may be old stuff, but it is more than a match for anything new.

Richard.

On 5/14/2010 4:20 PM, Richard wrote:

No. That’s the Expression Studio. The Expression E3 part of studio is the program Expression Designer. That is a significantly different beast to the Creature House Expression E3. The original link I posted is to fully functional free versions for PC and Mac. It may be old stuff, but it is more than a match for anything new.

Richard.

Thanks, Richard. I missed that in all the MS product verbiage. Downloading it now. I’ll let you know the results. Actually kind of amazing that they have a free version available.

–williamc

In article <4bedb093$0$12164$>,
"Richard" wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

For everybody’s information, it looks like they’re selling it for $350 for registered Adobe users…

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Upgrade.aspx

No. That’s the Expression Studio. The Expression E3 part of studio is the program Expression Designer. That is a significantly different beast to the Creature House Expression E3. The original link I posted is to fully functional free versions for PC and Mac. It may be old stuff, but it is more than a match for anything new.

Richard.

Thanks for that, Richard!

No. That’s the Expression Studio. The Expression E3 part of studio is the program Expression Designer. That is a significantly different beast to the Creature House Expression E3. The original link I posted is to fully functional free versions for PC and Mac. It may be old stuff, but it is more than a match for anything new.

Richard.

Richard,

Thanks again – this is great to have! I looked through my old disks and found my original copy of Fractal Design Expression, I believe it was version 1.0 from around 1996. There was a credit for "Creature House" on the disk which I probably never noticed at the time.

I haven’t had Expression installed for a long time and probably wouldn’t have tried to use it again, but thanks to your link and Creature House I have a much later version of the program (~2003) with manual.

–williamc

"John Stafford" wrote in message

In article <4bedb093$0$12164$>,
"Richard" wrote:

"williamc" wrote in message

For everybody’s information, it looks like they’re selling it for $350 for registered Adobe users…

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Upgrade.aspx

No. That’s the Expression Studio. The Expression E3 part of studio is the program Expression Designer. That is a significantly different beast to the
Creature House Expression E3. The original link I posted is to fully functional free versions for PC and Mac. It may be old stuff, but it is more
than a match for anything new.

Richard.

Thanks for that, Richard!

YVW, and williamc too.
Take the time to get used to the UI. At first it seems stupid, but the logic of it becomes clear after perseverance.

Richard