Pshop asks: "Do you want to use the embedded profile?"

Robert Montgomery wrote:

I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I’ve been using for most of my files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.

This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working setting, which is Pro Photo.

The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the embedded profile.

What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?

Robert

I just solved the problem; I had forgotten to quit Pshop and reopen it to activate the new settings.

Robert

On 2011-11-21 14:57:40 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I’ve been using for most of my files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.

This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working setting, which is Pro Photo.

The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the embedded profile.

What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?

Robert

ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.

There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when editing in Photoshop.
Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you working towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting image viewed on a display. What have you done to ensure color matching the work on your display to a standard output for display? or matched with a printer & paper profile.
For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will have to be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most printers. For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.

What you are experiencing is a conflict in the default colorspace you have set and what the you are being queried on when making saves. If you are confident with what you are actually doing, you should be able to get rid if the annoying warnings and requests to make a choice.

Go to Edit–>Color Settings

This will open the Color Settings dialog.
In the center section "Color Management Policies" you will/should find two option lines and three "check boxes".
1: "Profiles Mismatches" with choices "Ask when opening" & "Ask when pasting"
You can have any of these checked or unchecked.

2: "Missing Profiles" has one check box.

< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/ColorSettings.jpg >

I have chosen to have all of the warnings disabled. When I open RAW files from ACR they open in CS5 using ProPhoto. Once I have completed my work on that particular image I have created an action which adds a border, converts from 16-bit mode to 8-bit, and converts the color profile from ProPhoto to sRGB, which is what I need for my Epson R2880 and display of any images I might share online, ending up with results along these lines.
< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >

—
Regards,

Savageduck

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

I have chosen to have all of the warnings disabled. When I open RAW files from ACR they open in CS5 using ProPhoto. Once I have completed my work on that particular image I have created an action which adds a border, converts from 16-bit mode to 8-bit, and converts the color profile from ProPhoto to sRGB, which is what I need for my Epson R2880 and display of any images I might share online, ending up with results along these lines. < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >

Your Epson R2880 certainly does not ‘need’ sRGB, on the contrary. Providing that you know how to use color managment for printing, your printer will benefit from a larger color space, such as AdobeRGB or even the ProPhotoRGB you now start with. Don’t think that ProPhotoRGB is ‘too big’ for your printer. That is what color management is for. But a color space that is already too small (and sRGB is indeed too small for this printer), will give sub-optimal results, with or without color management.

—
Johan W. Elzenga, Editor/Photographer, www.johanfoto.com

On 2011-11-22 01:00:30 -0800, Johan W. Elzenga said:

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

I have chosen to have all of the warnings disabled. When I open RAW files from ACR they open in CS5 using ProPhoto. Once I have completed my work on that particular image I have created an action which adds a border, converts from 16-bit mode to 8-bit, and converts the color profile from ProPhoto to sRGB, which is what I need for my Epson R2880 and display of any images I might share online, ending up with results along these lines. < http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >

Your Epson R2880 certainly does not ‘need’ sRGB, on the contrary. Providing that you know how to use color managment for printing, your printer will benefit from a larger color space, such as AdobeRGB or even the ProPhotoRGB you now start with. Don’t think that ProPhotoRGB is ‘too big’ for your printer. That is what color management is for. But a color space that is already too small (and sRGB is indeed too small for this printer), will give sub-optimal results, with or without color management.

Perhaps "need" was a poor choice of words, since I use what gives my workflow/hardware good results. Sometimes that means working in 16-bit ProPhoto PSD/TIF, sometimes sRGB, 8/16-bit JPEG/PSD.

Where my workflow is going to result in a file for printing, usually my paper selection is going to determine some of my actions. Many of those image files are only retained as 16-bit, ProPhoto PSD’s
I maintain a calibrated display. I mainly use Red River paper for my final prints, I use the Red River custom profiles for those papers. Prints made on their Polar Pearl Metallic and UltraPro Gloss papers, I usually only print from 16-bit, ProPhoto files. With only a few being printed from sRGB jpeg files. The Metallic papers are quite critical when it come to getting good print results, even on the R2880. Not all images present well on Metallic papers.
When I use their UltraPro Satin 2.0, Polar Matte, 60lb Linen I usually print from sRGB 8-bit JPEGs. (Here is where I have my only complaint with the R2880, having to swap out Photo Black & Matte Black inks).

I can say, so far I have yet to be disappointed with any of the prints produced on the R2880. I cannot say the same for the Canon i9900 it replaced. That was a printer which promised plenty, but was never consistent, and was always disappointing in some way.

—
Regards,

Savageduck

Savageduck wrote:

On 2011-11-21 14:57:40 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I’ve been using for most of my files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.

This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working setting, which is Pro Photo.

The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the embedded profile.

What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?
Robert

ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.
There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when editing in Photoshop.
Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you working towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting image viewed on a display.

Both.

What have you done to ensure color matching the

work on your display to a standard output for display?

I’ve calibrated my monitor.

or matched with a

printer & paper profile.

In File > Print > Printer, I’ve selected the applicable printer (I have two Epson inkjets.)

In File > Print > Print Settings, I’ve chosen Color Settings > Epson Color Controls, and

In Print Setings > Media Type > I choose Watercolor Paper Radiant White for Lyve canvas or Enhanced Matte for Somerset Velvet paper, and

In View > Proof Setup, I check Lyve canvas or Somerset Velvet paper, and

in View > Proof Colors, I’ve put a check mare, and

In View, Gamut Warning, I’ve put a check mark.

For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will have to be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most printers. For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.

I’m printing only on my two Epson inkjet printers.

What you are experiencing is a conflict in the default colorspace you have set and what the you are being queried on when making saves. If you are confident with what you are actually doing, you should be able to get rid if the annoying warnings and requests to make a choice.
Go to Edit–>Color Settings

This will open the Color Settings dialog.
In the center section "Color Management Policies" you will/should find two option lines and three "check boxes".
1: "Profiles Mismatches" with choices "Ask when opening" & "Ask when pasting"
You can have any of these checked or unchecked.

2: "Missing Profiles" has one check box.

< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/ColorSettings.jpg >
I have chosen to have all of the warnings disabled.

Okay. I got that part.

Thanks. Robert
When I open RAW

files from ACR they open in CS5 using ProPhoto. Once I have completed my work on that particular image I have created an action which adds a border, converts from 16-bit mode to 8-bit, and converts the color profile from ProPhoto to sRGB, which is what I need for my Epson R2880 and display of any images I might share online, ending up with results along these lines.
< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >

On 2011-11-30 22:04:13 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

Savageduck wrote:

On 2011-11-21 14:57:40 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I’ve been using for most of my files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.

This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working setting, which is Pro Photo.

The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the embedded profile.

What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?
Robert

ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.
There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when editing in Photoshop.
Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you working towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting image viewed on a display.

Both.

OK! Though you should be able to print satisfactorily of your Epson printers I qualify that by asking which Epson printers you are talking about.

….and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is 72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to 72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you will not see the difference on a display.

So given my usual practice I have an image I worked on in ProPhoto RGB, 16-bit and ended up with a final print size of 21.28MB 4950×3353 @ 300ppi in 16-Bit ProPhoto RGB usually save as a PSD. That lets me print large on 19×13 paper, and if I want to I can obtain much larger commercial prints. To save that as a JPEG I have to go to 8-Bit.

The JPEG file I produced for display viewing is about 260KB 867×1280 @300ppi in 8-Bit sRGB and quite simply open in a browser. That is the image I shared in the post you responded to and can be found by clicking on the link at the bottom of this lengthy missive.

What have you done to ensure color matching the

work on your display to a standard output for display?

I’ve calibrated my monitor.

Good!

or matched with a

printer & paper profile.

In File > Print > Printer, I’ve selected the applicable printer (I have two Epson inkjets.)

It would be good to know models.

In File > Print > Print Settings, I’ve chosen Color Settings > Epson Color Controls, and

In Print Setings > Media Type > I choose Watercolor Paper Radiant White for Lyve canvas or Enhanced Matte for Somerset Velvet paper, and
In View > Proof Setup, I check Lyve canvas or Somerset Velvet paper, and
in View > Proof Colors, I’ve put a check mare, and

In View, Gamut Warning, I’ve put a check mark.

If you have done your work well, the gamut warning is only going to go haywire if you set the Rendering Intent to "Absolute Colorimetric".

When making my final prints I rarely have the Match Print Colors & Gamut Warning boxes checked.

….and there it is going to be a matter of whether you are using custom paper/printer profiles for Photoshop to control, or if you are letting the Epson driver handle things.

Since I am using Red River Papers, my current favorite being Polar Pearl Metallic, I use their custom profiles for my R2880 and Manage Colors.
I will usually have the Rendering Intent set to "Perceptual" and only occasionally use "Relative Colorimetric"

For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will have to be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most printers. For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.

I’m printing only on my two Epson inkjet printers.

Fine. That makes thing simple.

What you are experiencing is a conflict in the default colorspace you have set and what the you are being queried on when making saves. If you are confident with what you are actually doing, you should be able to get rid if the annoying warnings and requests to make a choice.
Go to Edit–>Color Settings

This will open the Color Settings dialog.
In the center section "Color Management Policies" you will/should find two option lines and three "check boxes".
1: "Profiles Mismatches" with choices "Ask when opening" & "Ask when pasting"
You can have any of these checked or unchecked.

2: "Missing Profiles" has one check box.

< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/ColorSettings.jpg >
I have chosen to have all of the warnings disabled.

Okay. I got that part.

Thanks. Robert
When I open RAW

files from ACR they open in CS5 using ProPhoto. Once I have completed my work on that particular image I have created an action which adds a border, converts from 16-bit mode to 8-bit, and converts the color profile from ProPhoto to sRGB, which is what I need for my Epson R2880 and display of any images I might share online, ending up with results along these lines.

….and there is the image of which I wrote.

< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> found these unused words:

…and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is 72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to 72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you will not see the difference on a display.

Horsepuckey!

The resolution setting in the image has NO, repeat -=NO=- affect upon the screen.

All it cares about is PIXELS!

Some stupid programs try to read and ‘size’, but then that’s the fault of the user/programmer for misuseing the tag!

On 2011-12-01 10:35:22 -0800, Sir F. A. Rien said:

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> found these unused words:

…and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is 72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to 72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you will not see the difference on a display.

Horsepuckey!

The resolution setting in the image has NO, repeat -=NO=- affect upon the screen.

Agreed. …and if you reread what I wrote, you should see that I said as much.

All it cares about is PIXELS!

Some stupid programs try to read and ‘size’, but then that’s the fault of the user/programmer for misuseing the tag!

Always.

Savageduck wrote:

On 2011-11-30 22:04:13 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

Savageduck wrote:

On 2011-11-21 14:57:40 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I’ve been using for most of my files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.

This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working setting, which is Pro Photo.

The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the embedded profile.

What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?
Robert

ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.
There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when editing in Photoshop.
Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you working towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting image viewed on a display.

Both.

OK! Though you should be able to print satisfactorily of your Epson printers I qualify that by asking which Epson printers you are talking about.

I’m printing with my Epson Stylus Pro 7600 and Epson Stylus Pro 2400.

…and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is 72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to 72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you will not see the difference on a display.

So given my usual practice I have an image I worked on in ProPhoto RGB, 16-bit and ended up with a final print size of 21.28MB 4950×3353 @ 300ppi in 16-Bit ProPhoto RGB usually save as a PSD. That lets me print large on 19×13 paper, and if I want to I can obtain much larger commercial prints. To save that as a JPEG I have to go to 8-Bit.
The JPEG file I produced for display viewing is about 260KB 867×1280 @300ppi in 8-Bit sRGB and quite simply open in a browser. That is the image I shared in the post you responded to and can be found by clicking on the link at the bottom of this lengthy missive.

What have you done to ensure color matching the

work on your display to a standard output for display?

I’ve calibrated my monitor.

Good!

or matched with a

printer & paper profile.

In File > Print > Printer, I’ve selected the applicable printer (I have two Epson inkjets.)

It would be good to know models.

Epson 7600 and 2400.

In File > Print > Print Settings, I’ve chosen Color Settings > Epson Color Controls, and

In Print Setings > Media Type > I choose Watercolor Paper Radiant White for Lyve canvas or Enhanced Matte for Somerset Velvet paper, and
In View > Proof Setup, I check Lyve canvas or Somerset Velvet paper, and
in View > Proof Colors, I’ve put a check mark, and

In View, Gamut Warning, I’ve put a check mark.

If you have done your work well, the gamut warning is only going to go haywire if you set the Rendering Intent to "Absolute Colorimetric".

This is something that confuses me. In View > Proof Setup > Custom, with Device to Simulate set to sRGBIEC6196602.1, for example, (or Pro Photo) the default rendering intent is Relative Colorometric. But when I go to File > Print > Rendering Intent is set to Perceptual. I assume that Perceptual takes precedence, but I don’t know.

When making my final prints I rarely have the Match Print Colors & Gamut Warning boxes checked.

…and there it is going to be a matter of whether you are using custom paper/printer profiles for Photoshop to control, or if you are letting the Epson driver handle things.

In File > Print > Color Handling, i have set it to Printer Manages Color.

And in File > Print > Print Settings, I have set Color Matching to Epson Color Controls.

For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will have to be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most printers. For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.

I’m printing only on my two Epson inkjet printers.

Fine. That makes thing simple.

But I find that when I start with RAW files I can’t apply filters to them because they’re in 16-bit mode. If I convert the files to eight-bit mode, then the advantage of the wider gamut provided by ProPhoto is lost, so It appears that Pro Photo is useless, because I rely those filters to alter my pictures.

…and there is the image of which I wrote.

< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >

Nice picture of a nice plane!

Robert

On 2011-12-13 21:35:36 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

Savageduck wrote:

On 2011-11-30 22:04:13 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

Savageduck wrote:

On 2011-11-21 14:57:40 -0800, Robert Montgomery
said:

I recently learned that the Pro Photo color setting is better than the sRBGIEC61966-2.1 color setting that I’ve been using for most of my files, so I set up a new Pro Photo color setting.

This has caused a problem: Every time I open a Photoshop image, a window first opens that asks if I want to use the embadded profile (sRGBIEC61966-2.1, or to convert the color setting to the working setting, which is Pro Photo.

The window shows that the radio button is on the setting for the file being untagged, so I have to click on the button to choose the embedded profile.

What can I do to avoid this annoyance, and still benefit from the wider gamut that Pro Photo will provide for my new pictures?
Robert

ProPhoto certainly gives you a wider gamut than Adobe RGB or sRGB.
There are a few things one should consider when making that choice when editing in Photoshop.
Most important consideration is going to be your output. Are you working towards a print, or are you only going to have the resulting image viewed on a display.

Both.

OK! Though you should be able to print satisfactorily of your Epson printers I qualify that by asking which Epson printers you are talking about.

I’m printing with my Epson Stylus Pro 7600 and Epson Stylus Pro 2400.

I guess you intend to print BIG with that 7600!

Both are printers which should give you great results

You are aware that there are ink differences between those two printers and you are probably going to get slightly dissimilar results with the same print job on each.

…and while all you need for file resolution for screen display is 72ppi, 240-300ppi is going to be preferred for printing. I seldom go to 72ppi if the file I am using is going to serve both purposes. If the display file is going to be resized considerably smaller than the print size I will consider changing to 72ppi from 300ppi and in sRGB, you will not see the difference on a display.

So given my usual practice I have an image I worked on in ProPhoto RGB, 16-bit and ended up with a final print size of 21.28MB 4950×3353 @ 300ppi in 16-Bit ProPhoto RGB usually save as a PSD. That lets me print large on 19×13 paper, and if I want to I can obtain much larger commercial prints. To save that as a JPEG I have to go to 8-Bit.
The JPEG file I produced for display viewing is about 260KB 867×1280 @300ppi in 8-Bit sRGB and quite simply open in a browser. That is the image I shared in the post you responded to and can be found by clicking on the link at the bottom of this lengthy missive.

What have you done to ensure color matching the

work on your display to a standard output for display?

I’ve calibrated my monitor.

Good!

or matched with a

printer & paper profile.

In File > Print > Printer, I’ve selected the applicable printer (I have two Epson inkjets.)

It would be good to know models.

Epson 7600 and 2400.

See my comment above.

In File > Print > Print Settings, I’ve chosen Color Settings > Epson Color Controls, and

In Print Setings > Media Type > I choose Watercolor Paper Radiant White for Lyve canvas or Enhanced Matte for Somerset Velvet paper, and
In View > Proof Setup, I check Lyve canvas or Somerset Velvet paper, and
in View > Proof Colors, I’ve put a check mark, and

In View, Gamut Warning, I’ve put a check mark.

If you have done your work well, the gamut warning is only going to go haywire if you set the Rendering Intent to "Absolute Colorimetric".

This is something that confuses me. In View > Proof Setup > Custom, with Device to Simulate set to sRGBIEC6196602.1, for example, (or Pro Photo) the default rendering intent is Relative Colorometric. But when I go to File > Print > Rendering Intent is set to Perceptual. I assume that Perceptual takes precedence, but I don’t know.

Both "Perceptual" and "Relative" Colorimetric should give you satisfactory results, however I find "Perceptual" a little more forgiving and in most cases gives me my best results.

"Relative" will shift to the nearest output value for the destination color space when out of gamut. This is useful when there are color space differences between source and destination., but sometimes the results can make you wince.

"Absolute" has yet to find itself into my regular print work flow, as I have always found the results to be nasty. I could be, and probably am wrong but that is my experience.

"Saturation" is really not appropriate for photograph reproduction, unless you are trying something bizarre. Leave this for business graphics.

When making my final prints I rarely have the Match Print Colors & Gamut Warning boxes checked.

…and there it is going to be a matter of whether you are using custom paper/printer profiles for Photoshop to control, or if you are letting the Epson driver handle things.

In File > Print > Color Handling, i have set it to Printer Manages Color.
And in File > Print > Print Settings, I have set Color Matching to Epson Color Controls.

Why would you have the printer control color matching if you are using PS profiles, and you have done all your work in PS with your calibrated display, only to have the printer undo what you were trying to get right?
I always have Photoshop manage colors.

For the most part any editing you do in ProPhoto colorspace will have to be coverted to sRGB for consistent display or printing on most printers. For some print work you might be required to use CMYK.

I’m printing only on my two Epson inkjet printers.

Fine. That makes thing simple.

But I find that when I start with RAW files I can’t apply filters to them because they’re in 16-bit mode. If I convert the files to eight-bit mode, then the advantage of the wider gamut provided by ProPhoto is lost, so It appears that Pro Photo is useless, because I rely those filters to alter my pictures.

Then the time might have come to invest in some third party filters which will work in 16-bit, or make the compromise to work in 8-bit Adobe RGB/sRGB. I think you will find that the wider gamut is not that significant an advantage.

….and can you actually tell the differences between the 16-bit ProPhoto and the 8-bit RGB/sRGB for what you intend. Remember there is nothing stopping you from moving back to 16-bit mode and ProPhoto once you have completed your 8-bit work.

Personally I think you are chasing a concept of "something better" which is not going to give you the "superior" results you anticipate by the using the wider gamut.

Just my 2¢.

…and there is the image of which I wrote.

< http://homepage.mac.com/lco/filechute/DSC_1726Gws.jpg >

Nice picture of a nice plane!

Robert

—
Regards,

Savageduck