perplexing problem

Theo wrote:

Hi everyone

Im looking for some more suggestions on how to track down a problem. Last couple days my system (w2k sp3) has been locking up at various times while using Photoshop 6 and Image Ready. Most of the time its when Im scanning… but the scanner works if sending an image to mspaint or image viewer. Other times it will lock up simply after plotting just 1 pixel with any drawing tool. Or opening a second image (600×600 max). Once or twice it locked while loading.
So far Ive reinstalled the program twice, made sure there is nothing in the ‘common files’ adobe folder, reinstalled/repaired windows, gone back to sp3 (eveything locked in sp4 as well), uninstalled everything put on the computer in the last 2 weeks, scanned for viruses and spyware, defragmented the drive… basically everything short of reformatting and starting from scratch. Theres alot of other material on the drive and I am really trying to avoid doing that if possible. Maybe there are other things I am missing.

Any suggestions on what else to try?

I feel your pain. No one enjoys this experience. Here are a few ideas.

1) Check the Event log. Sometimes there will be traces of what happened just before the crash. Run sfc to verify that all your system files are ok.

2) Boot in safe mode and see if Photohsop locks up in safe mode. If it does, this is not a video acceleration issue.

3) Back off on the video acceleration slider in the performance section of your display properties; Start>Settings>Control Panel>Display, Properties>Advanced>TroubleShooting. If that stabilizes things, install the latest version of DirectX and your display drivers. Second choice is to revert to an older display driver, perhaps the one shipping with Win2K.

4) The failure you are seeing seems to be related to memory use. Run memory diags, and check your motherboard manufacturer’s web site for any other diags that are available for your computer.

5) Thermal. Since the failure happens intermittently, open the case and make sure all your fans are working, particularly the one on the video board if there is one. Leave the case open and blow air into it with an external fan to cool your system. If the crashes stop, you have an overheating problem, probably related to accumulated dust, a fan that is not running at full speed, or an incorrectly installed or heat sink.

6) Power. Check your voltages in the bios and make sure they are all within a couple tenths of volt (or otherwise within specifications). There are utilities that will monitor temperatures, voltages, and fan speeds while windows is running. Motherboard Monitor is among the most popular. Watch out for adware and spyware when installing this sort of utility.

7) Overclocking. If you have a teenager in the house who uses your system for video games, there is intense peer pressure to overclock to the max. That includes memory, processor, front side bus, and above all, video. Set everything back to its default in the BIOS, and reset any video card tweaks.

8) Part swap. Trade scanners and/or video boards with a friend and see if the crash follows either device. Open your system, vacuum out the dust, and reseat all the cables.

9) Out of ideas? Maybe others have more thoughts on this. In the end, short of buying a new system, you can get a new motherboard and CPU, re-using the rest of your system, for almost as low a price as you wish. I takes an hour or two to make this switch. This will boost your performance, and hopefully fix the crashes. Only do this if you enjoy messing with your computer, otherwise hire a bright high school student.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

"Mike Russell" wrote in
news:Ds0Oc.99536$:

I feel your pain. No one enjoys this experience. Here are a few ideas.

Thanks I will check all these (some tomorrow tho, its laaaate)

1) Check the Event log. Sometimes there will be traces of what happened just before the crash. Run sfc to verify that all your system files are ok.

I am getting errors about a remote access control manager. But I think its more to do with the firewall that I changed back, since it only started showing up late today.

2) Boot in safe mode and see if Photohsop locks up in safe mode. If it does, this is not a video acceleration issue.

I will try that. Thing thats interesting is that I never had this problem before and the system is a few years old now. Why act up now?

3) Back off on the video acceleration slider in the performance section of your display properties; Start>Settings>Control Panel>Display, Properties>Advanced>TroubleShooting. If that stabilizes things, install the latest version of DirectX and your display drivers. Second choice is to revert to an older display driver, perhaps the one shipping with Win2K.

Same as above… the video worked just fine before. Same with directx and the drivers. I think I have an older driver tho. I will try that. I thought maybe one of the windows hotfixes screwed with something… but reinstalling didnt fix it.

4) The failure you are seeing seems to be related to memory use. Run memory diags, and check your motherboard manufacturer’s web site for any other diags that are available for your computer.

youre suggesting the memory may be going? is there a good program for testing it?

5) Thermal. Since the failure happens intermittently, open the case and make sure all your fans are working, particularly the one on the video board if there is one. Leave the case open and blow air into it with an external fan to cool your system. If the crashes stop, you have an overheating problem, probably related to accumulated dust, a fan that is not running at full speed, or an incorrectly installed or heat sink.

temperature inside the box according the the monitor seems the same (89F). And that fan is so noisy that its impossible to not hear it. no fan for the video card, as its not really a high powered one.

6) Power. Check your voltages in the bios and make sure they are all within a couple tenths of volt (or otherwise within specifications). There are utilities that will monitor temperatures, voltages, and fan speeds while windows is running. Motherboard Monitor is among the most popular. Watch out for adware and spyware when installing this sort of utility.

voltages look normal

7) Overclocking. If you have a teenager in the house who uses your system for video games, there is intense peer pressure to overclock to the max. That includes memory, processor, front side bus, and above all, video. Set everything back to its default in the BIOS, and reset any video card tweaks.

no teens, no overclocking, no changes in the BIOS made in a long time, and no tweaking of the video card done.

8) Part swap. Trade scanners and/or video boards with a friend and see if the crash follows either device. Open your system, vacuum out the dust, and reseat all the cables.

I havent opened it up in a few months… time for a check I guess.

9) Out of ideas? Maybe others have more thoughts on this. In the end, short of buying a new system, you can get a new motherboard and CPU, re-using the rest of your system, for almost as low a price as you wish. I takes an hour or two to make this switch. This will boost your performance, and hopefully fix the crashes. Only do this if you enjoy messing with your computer, otherwise hire a bright high school student. —

Thanks

Any suggestions on what else to try?

Make sure you’ve got the latest upgrades/patches from Adobe for Photoshop/Imageready.
You may have too much on the hard drive. Clean it out and/or move stuff to CDs or portable hard drive. Give it a nice roomy scratch disk. Check the case fan to make sure it’s working and isn’t clogged with dust. Clean your Temp directories.
Run a registry cleaner.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

(LauraK) wrote in
news::

Make sure you’ve got the latest upgrades/patches from Adobe for Photoshop/Imageready.

thought I had those, but I will look again

You may have too much on the hard drive. Clean it out and/or move stuff to CDs or portable hard drive. Give it a nice roomy scratch disk. Check the case fan to make sure it’s working and isn’t clogged with dust. Clean your Temp directories.

Ive run it on either the C drive, or a blank partition on another drive (apx 10gb on each), and it still did it.

Run a registry cleaner.

Do that about every week

I did open up the case tho and it did appear that the main fan opening was blocked off my major dust mites. Now that the case is open the temp says its down to 80F. One of the PCI cards is right on top of the heatsink on the video card as well. I might move that tomorrow to allow more air flow. It is funny that this all started happening after several years of abuse (lots of 3D work and overnight renders). So maybe its starting to show its age ;o)

Thanks

Theo wrote:

Hi everyone

Im looking for some more suggestions on how to track down a problem. Last couple days my system (w2k sp3) has been locking up at various times while using Photoshop 6 and Image Ready. Most of the time its when Im scanning… but the scanner works if sending an image to mspaint or image viewer. Other times it will lock up simply after plotting just 1 pixel with any drawing tool. Or opening a second image (600×600 max). Once or twice it locked while loading.

So far Ive reinstalled the program twice, made sure there is nothing in the ‘common files’ adobe folder, reinstalled/repaired windows, gone back to sp3 (eveything locked in sp4 as well), uninstalled everything put on the computer in the last 2 weeks, scanned for viruses and spyware, defragmented the drive… basically everything short of reformatting and starting from scratch. Theres alot of other material on the drive and I am really trying to avoid doing that if possible. Maybe there are other things I am missing.

Any suggestions on what else to try?

Thanks :o)

Try resetting/trashing preferences.

—
Comic book sketches and artwork:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/edjh.html
Comics art for sale:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/batsale.html

edjh wrote in news:my2Oc.985$bA6.533556
@newshog.newsread.com:

Try resetting/trashing preferences.

Did that last night before I called it quits. We shall se how it goes today. But wouldnt uninstalling remove the preference files?

Theo wrote:

edjh wrote in news:my2Oc.985$bA6.533556
@newshog.newsread.com:

Try resetting/trashing preferences.

Did that last night before I called it quits. We shall se how it goes today. But wouldnt uninstalling remove the preference files?

No, it doesn’t.

—
Comic book sketches and artwork:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/edjh.html
Comics art for sale:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/batsale.html

edjh wrote in news:9ZfOc.1221$yo4.665574
@monger.newsread.com:

Did that last night before I called it quits. We shall se how it goes today. But wouldnt uninstalling remove the preference files?

No, it doesn’t.

a couple times when during the self-check after a restart all but one of the preferences files were ‘truncated’. When they werent I manually deleted them.

Some updates. Still no joy on the problem. But some examples of when it happens: Canvas increases causes it about 90% of the time (after clicking ‘ok’), locks on startup when ‘reading styles’, occationally while drawing, when using ‘open with’ it locks before displaying the image. Sometimes the adobefontlist and a winmgt file are truncated. Also… just to see if it was something with version 6 I went back to 5.5 and it still had problems. As for trying safe mode, is there a way to set msconfig to allow 16-bit colors? THe program wont run otherwise. 5.5 hasnt locked on startup yet, but maybe thats just chance. And… I went through all the procedures on the adobe help page regarding lockups except for removing extentions… and the dreaded reformatting option. Even if extentions are removed it doesnt fix the problem. This is by far the most annoying computer problem Ive ever had.

Sigh

Theo wrote:

edjh wrote in news:9ZfOc.1221$yo4.665574
@monger.newsread.com:

Did that last night before I called it quits. We shall se how it goes today. But wouldnt uninstalling remove the preference files?

No, it doesn’t.

a couple times when during the self-check after a restart all but one of the preferences files were ‘truncated’. When they werent I manually deleted them.

Some updates. Still no joy on the problem. But some examples of when it happens: Canvas increases causes it about 90% of the time (after clicking ‘ok’), locks on startup when ‘reading styles’, occationally while drawing, when using ‘open with’ it locks before displaying the image. Sometimes the adobefontlist and a winmgt file are truncated. Also… just to see if it was something with version 6 I went back to 5.5 and it still had problems. As for trying safe mode, is there a way to set msconfig to allow 16-bit colors? THe program wont run otherwise. 5.5 hasnt locked on startup yet, but maybe thats just chance. And… I went through all the procedures on the adobe help page regarding lockups except for removing extentions… and the dreaded reformatting option. Even if extentions are removed it doesnt fix the problem. This is by far the most annoying computer problem Ive ever had.

Sigh

Are you running Norton? That can mess up Photoshop, especially if it was running during install. Aside from that, I don’t know.

—
Comic book sketches and artwork:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/edjh.html
Comics art for sale:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/batsale.html

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 05:41:36 -0000, Theo wrote:

Hi everyone

Im looking for some more suggestions on how to track down a problem. Last couple days my system (w2k sp3) has been locking up at various times while using Photoshop 6 and Image Ready. Most of the time its when Im scanning… but the scanner works if sending an image to mspaint or image viewer. Other times it will lock up simply after plotting just 1 pixel with any drawing tool. Or opening a second image (600×600 max). Once or twice it locked while loading.

So far Ive reinstalled the program twice, made sure there is nothing in the ‘common files’ adobe folder, reinstalled/repaired windows, gone back to sp3 (eveything locked in sp4 as well), uninstalled everything put on the computer in the last 2 weeks, scanned for viruses and spyware, defragmented the drive… basically everything short of reformatting and starting from scratch. Theres alot of other material on the drive and I am really trying to avoid doing that if possible. Maybe there are other things I am missing.

Any suggestions on what else to try?

Thanks :o)

it sounds to me like you have a memory problem. It may be that one of the modules is failing. Because PS really hits the RAM hard it’s more likely to show up.

If you have more than one memory module try pulling each module out and run PS with just one module. If it doesn’t lock up, take that module out and try the next. And so on, depending on how many modules you have.

Otherwise, take memory that you know is OK (from a computer that’s working OK) and swap out all the memory in your computer with one of it’s modules. If PS works OK you know that one of your modules is causing the problem.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

edjh wrote in news:CUgOc.1024$bA6.545061
@newshog.newsread.com:

Are you running Norton? That can mess up Photoshop, especially if it was running during install. Aside from that, I don’t know.

Norton AV? Yes. Ive been running a simple diagnostic tool on memory for a couple hours (all seems good) so I havent been playing around with finding the problem… and there was dinner… next time I do a uninstall/install I will shut it off. Thanks.

Hecate wrote in
news::

If you have more than one memory module try pulling each module out and run PS with just one module. If it doesn’t lock up, take that module out and try the next. And so on, depending on how many modules you have.

Otherwise, take memory that you know is OK (from a computer that’s working OK) and swap out all the memory in your computer with one of it’s modules. If PS works OK you know that one of your modules is causing the problem.

3 Modules. I ran a diagnostic tool for a couple hours (from microsoft… it was free so no boos please ;o) ). Another thing to try, thanks.

Hecate wrote in
news::

it sounds to me like you have a memory problem. It may be that one of the modules is failing. Because PS really hits the RAM hard it’s more likely to show up.

Since you mention memory, should modules labeled as ‘ecc’ pass ‘parity/ecc’ checks during bootup? After checking around my cmos settings it was turned off. I turned it on and got an error.

And… the lock problem occurs on all three. I dread to think, if this is the problem, that my luck would be so bad that all of them would be failing at once. Yikes.

Theo wrote:

Hecate wrote in
news::

it sounds to me like you have a memory problem. It may be that one of the modules is failing. Because PS really hits the RAM hard it’s more likely to show up.

Since you mention memory, should modules labeled as ‘ecc’ pass ‘parity/ecc’ checks during bootup? After checking around my cmos settings it was turned off. I turned it on and got an error.

This almost certainly means nothing. Most memory has no parity and is not ECC enabled, so it’s no surprise that all your sticks failed the test.

And… the lock problem occurs on all three. I dread to think, if this is the problem, that my luck would be so bad that all of them would be failing at once. Yikes.

I think the memory theory deserves some more workout. Go into the BIOS and back off on your memory timings, particularly the read and write wait states. Look for a setting in the BIOS for the most conservative, albeit low performance, settings, and see.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

"Mike Russell" wrote in
news:mznOc.2114$:

I think the memory theory deserves some more workout. Go into the BIOS and back off on your memory timings, particularly the read and write wait states. Look for a setting in the BIOS for the most conservative, albeit low performance, settings, and see.

I will try this.

Anyone used memtest-86? I tried it this evening and of the 11 tests, it failed miserably on the 5th one. It would write something like ffffff7f at different addresses, but get back ffffffff. Not sure yet which one has all the errors. The test is supposed to check block moves, or so it says.

In article <Ds0Oc.99536$>,
says…

Theo wrote:

Hi everyone

Im looking for some more suggestions on how to track down a problem. Last couple days my system (w2k sp3) has been locking up at various times while using Photoshop 6 and Image Ready. Most of the time its when Im scanning… but the scanner works if sending an image to mspaint or image viewer. Other times it will lock up simply after plotting just 1 pixel with any drawing tool. Or opening a second image (600×600 max). Once or twice it locked while loading.
So far Ive reinstalled the program twice, made sure there is nothing in the ‘common files’ adobe folder, reinstalled/repaired windows, gone back to sp3 (eveything locked in sp4 as well), uninstalled everything put on the computer in the last 2 weeks, scanned for viruses and spyware, defragmented the drive… basically everything short of reformatting and starting from scratch. Theres alot of other material on the drive and I am really trying to avoid doing that if possible. Maybe there are other things I am missing.

Any suggestions on what else to try?

I feel your pain. No one enjoys this experience. Here are a few ideas.
1) Check the Event log. Sometimes there will be traces of what happened just before the crash. Run sfc to verify that all your system files are ok.
2) Boot in safe mode and see if Photohsop locks up in safe mode. If it does, this is not a video acceleration issue.

3) Back off on the video acceleration slider in the performance section of your display properties; Start>Settings>Control Panel>Display, Properties>Advanced>TroubleShooting. If that stabilizes things, install the latest version of DirectX and your display drivers. Second choice is to revert to an older display driver, perhaps the one shipping with Win2K.
4) The failure you are seeing seems to be related to memory use. Run memory diags, and check your motherboard manufacturer’s web site for any other diags that are available for your computer.

5) Thermal. Since the failure happens intermittently, open the case and make sure all your fans are working, particularly the one on the video board if there is one. Leave the case open and blow air into it with an external fan to cool your system. If the crashes stop, you have an overheating problem, probably related to accumulated dust, a fan that is not running at full speed, or an incorrectly installed or heat sink.

6) Power. Check your voltages in the bios and make sure they are all within a couple tenths of volt (or otherwise within specifications). There are utilities that will monitor temperatures, voltages, and fan speeds while windows is running. Motherboard Monitor is among the most popular. Watch out for adware and spyware when installing this sort of utility.
7) Overclocking. If you have a teenager in the house who uses your system for video games, there is intense peer pressure to overclock to the max. That includes memory, processor, front side bus, and above all, video. Set everything back to its default in the BIOS, and reset any video card tweaks.
8) Part swap. Trade scanners and/or video boards with a friend and see if the crash follows either device. Open your system, vacuum out the dust, and reseat all the cables.

9) Out of ideas? Maybe others have more thoughts on this. In the end, short of buying a new system, you can get a new motherboard and CPU, re-using the rest of your system, for almost as low a price as you wish. I takes an hour or two to make this switch. This will boost your performance, and hopefully fix the crashes. Only do this if you enjoy messing with your computer, otherwise hire a bright high school student.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Excellent step-by-step diagnosis plan.

You might also want to think back to what changes/additions, you might have made before these shutdowns started. Can I assume that this setup worked fine at one time?

Is the scanner SCSI – check for termination issues. Often Ctrl-A just as the SCSI cards bios start (if it has bios, and they are enabled) can reveal glitches. Some equipment and some applications are more prone to reacting to these problems.

Look into the TWAIN dll(s) for PS. You have reinstalled, but there might be a conflict now.

All additional thoughts for now,
Hunt

In article ,
says…

"Mike Russell" wrote in
news:Ds0Oc.99536$:

I feel your pain. No one enjoys this experience. Here are a few ideas.

Thanks I will check all these (some tomorrow tho, its laaaate)

1) Check the Event log. Sometimes there will be traces of what happened just before the crash. Run sfc to verify that all your system files are ok.

I am getting errors about a remote access control manager. But I think its more to do with the firewall that I changed back, since it only started showing up late today.

2) Boot in safe mode and see if Photohsop locks up in safe mode. If it does, this is not a video acceleration issue.

I will try that. Thing thats interesting is that I never had this problem before and the system is a few years old now. Why act up now?

3) Back off on the video acceleration slider in the performance section of your display properties; Start>Settings>Control Panel>Display, Properties>Advanced>TroubleShooting. If that stabilizes things, install the latest version of DirectX and your display drivers. Second choice is to revert to an older display driver, perhaps the one shipping with Win2K.

Same as above… the video worked just fine before. Same with directx and the drivers. I think I have an older driver tho. I will try that. I thought maybe one of the windows hotfixes screwed with something… but reinstalling didnt fix it.

4) The failure you are seeing seems to be related to memory use. Run memory diags, and check your motherboard manufacturer’s web site for any other diags that are available for your computer.

youre suggesting the memory may be going? is there a good program for testing it?

5) Thermal. Since the failure happens intermittently, open the case and make sure all your fans are working, particularly the one on the video board if there is one. Leave the case open and blow air into it with an external fan to cool your system. If the crashes stop, you have an overheating problem, probably related to accumulated dust, a fan that is not running at full speed, or an incorrectly installed or heat sink.

temperature inside the box according the the monitor seems the same (89F). And that fan is so noisy that its impossible to not hear it. no fan for the video card, as its not really a high powered one.

6) Power. Check your voltages in the bios and make sure they are all within a couple tenths of volt (or otherwise within specifications). There are utilities that will monitor temperatures, voltages, and fan speeds while windows is running. Motherboard Monitor is among the most popular. Watch out for adware and spyware when installing this sort of utility.

voltages look normal

7) Overclocking. If you have a teenager in the house who uses your system for video games, there is intense peer pressure to overclock to the max. That includes memory, processor, front side bus, and above all, video. Set everything back to its default in the BIOS, and reset any video card tweaks.

no teens, no overclocking, no changes in the BIOS made in a long time, and no tweaking of the video card done.

8) Part swap. Trade scanners and/or video boards with a friend and see if the crash follows either device. Open your system, vacuum out the dust, and reseat all the cables.

I havent opened it up in a few months… time for a check I guess.

9) Out of ideas? Maybe others have more thoughts on this. In the end, short of buying a new system, you can get a new motherboard and CPU, re-using the rest of your system, for almost as low a price as you wish. I takes an hour or two to make this switch. This will boost your performance, and hopefully fix the crashes. Only do this if you enjoy messing with your computer, otherwise hire a bright high school student. —

Thanks

One last thought, SP-4 did have some issues in W2K, and some of the hotfixes that came after didn’t work particularly well with SP-3. I saw in OP that you had tried SP-4 (many had memory issues, but these were usually followed by BSD, or at least an error message). My W2K box had tons of issues with SP-4 and going back to SP-3 didn’t clear these up. New MB and re-installing SP-4 seemed to fix it though – better go check and make sure it’s still FIXED! <G>

Good luck,
Hunt

In article ,
says…

edjh wrote in news:9ZfOc.1221$yo4.665574
@monger.newsread.com:

Did that last night before I called it quits. We shall se how it goes today. But wouldnt uninstalling remove the preference files?

No, it doesn’t.

a couple times when during the self-check after a restart all but one of the preferences files were ‘truncated’. When they werent I manually deleted them.

Some updates. Still no joy on the problem. But some examples of when it happens: Canvas increases causes it about 90% of the time (after clicking ‘ok’), locks on startup when ‘reading styles’, occationally while drawing, when using ‘open with’ it locks before displaying the image. Sometimes the adobefontlist and a winmgt file are truncated. Also… just to see if it was something with version 6 I went back to 5.5 and it still had problems. As for trying safe mode, is there a way to set msconfig to allow 16-bit colors? THe program wont run otherwise. 5.5 hasnt locked on startup yet, but maybe thats just chance. And… I went through all the procedures on the adobe help page regarding lockups except for removing extentions… and the dreaded reformatting option. Even if extentions are removed it doesnt fix the problem. This is by far the most annoying computer problem Ive ever had.

Sigh

What drive system are you on? The truncated files are often associated with SCSI problems. Maybe I should re-state that: SCSI problems can often cause truncated files. If you are EIDE/SATA ignore my SCSI ramblings.

Hunt

In article ,
says…

Hecate wrote in
news::

it sounds to me like you have a memory problem. It may be that one of the modules is failing. Because PS really hits the RAM hard it’s more likely to show up.

Since you mention memory, should modules labeled as ‘ecc’ pass ‘parity/ecc’ checks during bootup? After checking around my cmos settings it was turned off. I turned it on and got an error.

And… the lock problem occurs on all three. I dread to think, if this is the problem, that my luck would be so bad that all of them would be failing at once. Yikes.

Or, more likely, the bus connection on MB, if this IS the problem.

Hunt

:

One last thought, SP-4 did have some issues in W2K, and some of the hotfixes that came after didn’t work particularly well with SP-3. I saw in OP that you had tried SP-4 (many had memory issues, but these were usually followed by BSD, or at least an error message). My W2K box had tons of issues with SP-4 and going back to SP-3 didn’t clear these up. New MB and re-installing SP-4 seemed to fix it though – better go check and make sure it’s still FIXED! <G>

thought of that, and maybe its time to get a new upgrade on one since they are really pretty cheap.

Thing is… as I thought about it, I think the freezing problem started before I went to sp4. But they were with ms word and maybe one of the browsers.

:

What drive system are you on? The truncated files are often associated with SCSI problems. Maybe I should re-state that: SCSI problems can often cause truncated files. If you are EIDE/SATA ignore my SCSI ramblings.

I have a scsi pci card but nothing has been attached to it for quite a while.

:

Or, more likely, the bus connection on MB, if this IS the problem.

suggestions on how to test for this? I tried two memory test programs (run from a floppy). One didnt find anything. The other went nuts during a ‘block move’ test.

Theo wrote:

:

Or, more likely, the bus connection on MB, if this IS the problem.

suggestions on how to test for this? I tried two memory test programs (run from a floppy). One didnt find anything. The other went nuts during a ‘block move’ test.

The block move test might be showing up the problem. This is the sort of operation that would happen during Photoshop image operations, and scanning.

Try putting each stick in one at a time and see if you can isolate the problem. Hopefully one of them will be the oddball. If all the sticks fail, I’d back off on your bios memory timings.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

In article ,
says…

:

Or, more likely, the bus connection on MB, if this IS the problem.

suggestions on how to test for this? I tried two memory test programs (run from a floppy). One didnt find anything. The other went nuts during a ‘block move’ test.

About the only idea that comes to mind would be to substitute "known good" memory (obviously of the correct type), if you can get it, then run the more thorough of the two utilities. I know that you’d like to trouble-shoot this yourself, but if you have a MB bus problem, then a good technician might be of some help.

Have you also posted to any of the appropriate W2k NG’s? There are usually a lot of hardware experts there, who can offer solutions.

Hunt

:

Have you also posted to any of the appropriate W2k NG’s? There are usually a lot of hardware experts there, who can offer solutions.

Yes, alt.os.windows2000 I think I will look for others as well

"Mike Russell" wrote in
news:3nzOc.2509$:

The block move test might be showing up the problem. This is the sort of operation that would happen during Photoshop image operations, and scanning.

Try putting each stick in one at a time and see if you can isolate the problem. Hopefully one of them will be the oddball. If all the sticks fail, I’d back off on your bios memory timings.

The memory is set at 8ns, which it what its rated as (is that what you mean?) I changed them to 10 just to see what happened and the problem remained. I also turned off any read-write settings in the bios that werent already disabled and didnt look like they were required according to the mb guide. No change.

Did I post here that the errors always showed up on the last two positions? ffffff7f or fffffff7 was sent, but ffffffff came back. On the last test there were about 300,000 errors in 512mb. Each block was moved around 64 times according to the test.

I did some memory swapping last night. I have 1×256 (slot 1) and 2×128 (slots 2 and 3). I took out the 256, put the others in slots 1 and 2, and after that just ran with the 256 module. I didnt have the memory checkers at the time but Photoshop did freeze under both. However, now the 256 module is in position 3. Photoshop still froze but I was able to do several resize tests before it did.

In a bit I will try the modules one at a time with the checkers. Note that all three were bought from crucial at different times. If all three show errors might that suggest its not the memory itself? Might it be possible that 1 or more of the memory slots themselves are bad? I cleaned the insides but would some missed dust cause such a problem?

Cheers… and thanks to everyone.

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 06:12:53 -0000, Theo wrote:

Hecate wrote in
news::

it sounds to me like you have a memory problem. It may be that one of the modules is failing. Because PS really hits the RAM hard it’s more likely to show up.

Since you mention memory, should modules labeled as ‘ecc’ pass ‘parity/ecc’ checks during bootup? After checking around my cmos settings it was turned off. I turned it on and got an error.

And… the lock problem occurs on all three. I dread to think, if this is the problem, that my luck would be so bad that all of them would be failing at once. Yikes.

In which case it may be the mobo rather than the memory.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

Theo wrote in news:Xns9536B7B102941densnews123@
216.168.3.44:

In a bit I will try the modules one at a time with the checkers

Now this was an interesting exercise.

I tried the 256 and one 128 module. Both gave errors when used alone in slot 1. Both gave errors again when in slot 2. I dont know if there should always be one in the first slot as well, but they registered anyway. When going to slot 3, no errors. But, for some reason the processor speed was listed as half of what its supposed to be. Back to slot 1. First time just a black screen… no beep, nothing. Reboot. The hard drives showed up but the cdr drive did not. No error… and cpu speed shows half again. Reboot. All drives back. CPU back to normal speed. Errors return. Modules then in slots 1 and 2. CPU speed half and no errors. Reboot. CPU speed doesnt return to normal. It goes on, and its very unpredictable.

Right now Im on the 256 and a 128 in slots 1 and 2. But only the 256 shows up as RAM and CPU is listed as 300. No cdr drive. Maybe I didnt seat the 128 right. But I did it twice to be sure. Another strange thing. There would be a system beep when everything started properly. Otherwise no beep, like during this windows bootup.

Im going to reseat the modules, and try the diagnostic tool again. Also Im not a hardware expert but know my way around the insides of a computer. That said, it sounds like things are on the verge of failing. Am I overstating things?

Oh… and any recommendations on good motherboards? Mine is an Abit and I have been quite pleased with it… until now I guess.

Cheers

Theo wrote:

Theo wrote in news:Xns9536B7B102941densnews123@
216.168.3.44:

In a bit I will try the modules one at a time with the checkers

Now this was an interesting exercise.

I tried the 256 and one 128 module. Both gave errors when used alone in slot 1. Both gave errors again when in slot 2. I dont know if there should always be one in the first slot as well, but they registered anyway. When going to slot 3, no errors. But, for some reason the processor speed was listed as half of what its supposed to be. Back to slot 1. First time just a black screen… no beep, nothing. Reboot. The hard drives showed up but the cdr drive did not. No error… and cpu speed shows half again. Reboot. All drives back. CPU back to normal speed. Errors return. Modules then in slots 1 and
2. CPU speed half and no errors. Reboot. CPU speed doesnt return to
normal. It goes on, and its very unpredictable.

Right now Im on the 256 and a 128 in slots 1 and 2. But only the 256 shows up as RAM and CPU is listed as 300. No cdr drive. Maybe I didnt seat the 128 right. But I did it twice to be sure. Another strange thing. There would be a system beep when everything started properly. Otherwise no beep, like during this windows bootup.

Im going to reseat the modules, and try the diagnostic tool again. Also Im not a hardware expert but know my way around the insides of a computer. That said, it sounds like things are on the verge of failing. Am I overstating things?

Oh… and any recommendations on good motherboards? Mine is an Abit and I have been quite pleased with it… until now I guess.
Cheers

Could be a config issue. do a google in alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (and post your question there, for that matter) for "cpu speed" and you’ll find all sort of interesting talk about DIP switches that affect the BIOS setup menus, cpu multipliers, etc.

Good luck.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

"Mike Russell" wrote in
news:YAEOc.2717$:

Could be a config issue. do a google in
alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (and post your question there, for that matter) for "cpu speed" and you’ll find all sort of interesting talk about DIP switches that affect the BIOS setup menus, cpu multipliers, etc.

Thanks I will do that. Things booted normally this time, but the errors persist. As for settings, the problem that started this strange journey occured far before I even touched the insides of the machine. I think I need to load up The Deads ‘Truckin’

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 03:30:29 -0000, Theo wrote:

Theo wrote in news:Xns9536B7B102941densnews123@
216.168.3.44:

In a bit I will try the modules one at a time with the checkers

Now this was an interesting exercise.

I tried the 256 and one 128 module. Both gave errors when used alone in slot 1. Both gave errors again when in slot 2. I dont know if there should always be one in the first slot as well, but they registered anyway. When going to slot 3, no errors. But, for some reason the processor speed was listed as half of what its supposed to be. Back to slot 1. First time just a black screen… no beep, nothing. Reboot. The hard drives showed up but the cdr drive did not. No error… and cpu speed shows half again. Reboot. All drives back. CPU back to normal speed. Errors return. Modules then in slots 1 and 2. CPU speed half and no errors. Reboot. CPU speed doesnt return to normal. It goes on, and its very unpredictable.
Right now Im on the 256 and a 128 in slots 1 and 2. But only the 256 shows up as RAM and CPU is listed as 300. No cdr drive. Maybe I didnt seat the 128 right. But I did it twice to be sure. Another strange thing. There would be a system beep when everything started properly. Otherwise no beep, like during this windows bootup.

Im going to reseat the modules, and try the diagnostic tool again. Also Im not a hardware expert but know my way around the insides of a computer. That said, it sounds like things are on the verge of failing. Am I overstating things?

Oh… and any recommendations on good motherboards? Mine is an Abit and I have been quite pleased with it… until now I guess.

Cheers

You should always fill the first numbered slot first, and with only one module it should go in the first slot. The fact that you’re having so many problems suggests that it’s almost certainly the motherboard.

Abit are usually reliable, but I had one die on me as well. I’ve had a Gigabyte die on me before now and but my current board is a Gigabyte. I suggest you look at Asus mobos.

One other thing, if you replace the mobo you’ll likely be replacing the processor and the memory as well, at a minimum. SO,consider whether you want to that, the age of the other cards you have like the graphics card, and see if you want to replace stuff or whether you just want a new computer.

—

Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui

Hecate wrote in
news::

Abit are usually reliable, but I had one die on me as well. I’ve had a Gigabyte die on me before now and but my current board is a Gigabyte. I suggest you look at Asus mobos.

One other thing, if you replace the mobo you’ll likely be replacing the processor and the memory as well, at a minimum. SO,consider whether you want to that, the age of the other cards you have like the graphics card, and see if you want to replace stuff or whether you just want a new computer.

Another thing Ive been considering. But its more money that I want to put out right now. There are some other options Im looking at that will cost me only 50… or less if Abit will still fix this particular defect. They used to. We shall see.

"Arty Phacting" wrote in
news:FSbPc.750$:

IO think there may be an IEEE report somewhere and it was basically because they stuck to specced mobo components. Apparently some mobo manufacturers decide to use audio quality capacitors rather than digital spec capacitors. In practise (then) it meant mobo’s would start all manner of problems after about 18 months use

Not audio. What Ive been reading is that some guy decided to leave a Japanese company that made capacitors, and took that companies new forumla with him. But… it wasnt ready, or it was missing something. Some new companies in Taiwan used that forumla, and lowballed everyone. OF course everone started buying their stuff, not just computer makers. A pox on whoever this guy is.

Last time I looked into it Tyan seemed to have a good reputation in mobo’s

IO think there may be an IEEE report somewhere and it was basically because they stuck to specced mobo components. Apparently some mobo manufacturers decide to use audio quality capacitors rather than digital spec capacitors. In practise (then) it meant mobo’s would start all manner of problems after about 18 months use

Arts

"Theo" wrote in message

Hecate wrote in
news::

Abit are usually reliable, but I had one die on me as well. I’ve had a Gigabyte die on me before now and but my current board is a Gigabyte. I suggest you look at Asus mobos.

One other thing, if you replace the mobo you’ll likely be replacing the processor and the memory as well, at a minimum. SO,consider whether you want to that, the age of the other cards you have like the graphics card, and see if you want to replace stuff or whether you just want a new computer.

Another thing Ive been considering. But its more money that I want to put out right now. There are some other options Im looking at that will cost

me

only 50… or less if Abit will still fix this particular defect. They

used

to. We shall see.

I just popped over to Tyan and had a ;look at the mobo’s

They do look good!

The paper about mobo’s was written pre-1997 if it helps

Was in pdf form and on the net

if memory serves me well it got sorta technical with a whole lot of emphasis on voltage spikes doing a whole lot of harm

Forgive me if this is not new to you but it may help others out there in this wonderful world called cyberspace

Arts

"Theo" wrote in message

"Arty Phacting" wrote in
news:FSbPc.750$:

IO think there may be an IEEE report somewhere and it was basically because they stuck to specced mobo components. Apparently some mobo manufacturers decide to use audio quality capacitors rather than digital spec capacitors. In practise (then) it meant mobo’s would start all manner of problems after about 18 months use

Not audio. What Ive been reading is that some guy decided to leave a Japanese company that made capacitors, and took that companies new forumla with him. But… it wasnt ready, or it was missing something. Some new companies in Taiwan used that forumla, and lowballed everyone. OF course everone started buying their stuff, not just computer makers. A pox on whoever this guy is.