Photoshop 7 to CMYK?

Cecilia wrote:

Hello!

I finished my folio and now I have a problem with printing it!
I sent my folio as adobe rgb 1998 photoshop 7 files to a printing company, and they say that it won’t print properly unless I put it in the right mode.
They want the files as cmyk with a pure black in the black layer, but I don’t know how to do this in photoshop!

Could you tell me how to do this? How do I convert it and how to save it?
Thanks

Bye!

These must be drawings, right? You wouldn’t want pure black in photos or paintings. Do you have your black line on a separate layer? I hope so.

Convert to CMYK by going to Image>Mode>CMYK. If you have the line art on its own layer make 100% black and zero C,M,Y in the color picker. Click the Lock Transparency icon on the Layers palette and Alt-Delete (Option-Delete on Mac) to fill the line with 100% black. Set the Blending mode of that layer to Multiply.

If you have large black areas or very thick lines you can add a "bump" layer under the line to get a smooth black. (if lines are very thin skip this part) This will simulate a "rich black". Just black alone will look flat. Ctrl-click (Command-click Mac)on the line in the palette to make a selection. Select>Modify>Contract by 2 pixels. On a layer beneath the line fill with 50% Cyan or 50% Magenta depending on the overall color scheme of the drawing. Leave Blend at Normal. This way you’ll have an even black line but if registration is off by a hair you won’t get a halo.

If the line is flattened into the color it will be more difficult, especially if the colors have any black in them. You’ll have to isolate the line and work in channels. The goal is to fill only line art in the Black channel with 100% black.

—
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In article <nIf0d.49$>,
"Cecilia" wrote:

They want the files as cmyk with a pure black in the black layer, but I don’t know how to do this in photoshop!

Could you tell me how to do this? How do I convert it and how to save it?

Easiest and probably best too, is to ask for the colorsync profile the printing company uses as default, and use "convert to profile" to convert to the new (CMYK) profile.

If you just use "mode->cmyk" the images get converted using default settings which may (or may not…) give surprising results.

😉
Lourens

I finished my folio and now I have a problem with printing it!

Congratulations, you have just learned the first and hardest rule of professional printing: Never, ever, ever sit down in front of your computer and do ANYTHING until AFTER you have talked to your printer and found out what they need, what format, and so on.

I sent my folio as adobe rgb 1998 photoshop 7 files to a printing company, and they say that it won’t print properly unless I put it in the right mode.

correct. You can never print RGB on a printing press. Don’t work in RGB for print; work in CMYK.

They want the files as cmyk with a pure black in the black layer, but I don’t know how to do this in photoshop!

You can just use Image->Mode->CMYK, and you’ll get a CMYK image.

However, depending on how that image will be printed on press, and what kind of paper is being used, the results may not be printable.

For best results, you MUST use File->Color Settings->CMYK Setup, and use the CMYK Setup dialog box to specify the separation parameters for your press and paper, EVERY time you create a CMYK separation.

Also, many colors in RGB can not be reproduced in CMYK. CMYK has a different range of colors, or "gamut," than RGB.

If your image contains out-of-gamut colors, these colors will be converted to their nearest approximation in CMYK. The result will be a color which is less saturated and somewhat flatter.

Often, a little bit of color tweaking is necessary in the CMYK image. After separating an RGB image to CMYK, you may wish to use the Curves command (Image->Adjust->Curves) to increase contrast in the midtones slightly, as the separation often becomes flatter in the midtones.

Specific colors can be tweaked with Image->Adjust->Selective Color. For example, if your blues have yellow in them, you can remove yellow from blues to make them more saturated and richer.

When you color corrrect the image, you should, of course, have your Info palette open. Look at the numbers in the out-of-gamut colors; see if your primary colors have any contaminating color that can be reduced to increase saturation. For example, yellow in your blues or cyan in your reds can be reduced, if present, to make the colors richer.

Vivid RGB blues often separate with too much magenta, making the colors appear more purple than blue. Using Selective Color to reduce magenta in blues will often solve this problem.

The range and depth of color you can expect to get depends on the settings in your CMYK setup, which themselves depend on the kind of paper and press you are going to be printing on.

As for setting up your CMYK separation:

If you just go Image->Mode->CMYK without changing the values in your CMYK setup, the result will look okay on most sheetfed presses and coated (glossy) color stocks, but will not be acceptable for, say, newspaper printing.

For best results, you should talk to your printer about what to do. Most importantly, make sure he gives you the values he needs for maximum ink and maximum black percentages; if you exceed these values, the image may smear on press.

As starter points:

For sheetfed presses printing on high-quality coated paper, you can usually use GCR, 100% black ink limit, 300% total ink limit, Light or Medium black generation.

For very high quality lithographic output, your total ink limit can go as high as 310%.

For web-fed presses on glossy paper, or sheetfed presses using high-quality uncoated paper at a 110-line halftone or above, use GCR, 100% black ink limit, 280% total ink limit, Light or Medium black generation.

Newsprint is a different story entirely. For newsprint, appropriate settings might be UCR, 240% to 260% total ink limit, 85% black ink limit. When you convert the image to CMYK, it will look washed-out and flat, but newsprint darkens *considerably* on press so this reduction in density is necessary.

To get your black objects pure black, you need to fill them with 100% black and 0% of cyan, magenta, and yellow—I sure hope they’re on their own layer, or you have a problem. For best results, if there is color beneath the black, you need to make the black "overprint" by setting that layer’s Mode to Multiply.

Save the result as a Photoshop (.PSD) file, TIFF, or EPS–not as a JPEG. Talk to your printer and find out which file format they prefer.

Hope that helps!

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

There is a convert to CMYK function in Photoshop, but why not deal with a printer that can handle YOUR files instead of trying to make your files conform to some printer?
If he can’t do the job, get someone who can.

—
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist’s Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html

"Cecilia" wrote in message

Hello!

I finished my folio and now I have a problem with printing it!
I sent my folio as adobe rgb 1998 photoshop 7 files to a printing company, and they say that it won’t print properly unless I put it in the right

mode.

They want the files as cmyk with a pure black in the black layer, but I don’t know how to do this in photoshop!

Could you tell me how to do this? How do I convert it and how to save it?
Thanks

Bye!

"Tony" posted:
"…
but why not deal with a
printer that can handle YOUR files instead of trying to make your files
conform to some printer?
…."

It doesn’t work that way …

See the posting by ‘Tacit’ directly above your posting. He speaks from experience.

Cecilia wrote:

Hello!

I finished my folio and now I have a problem with printing it!
I sent my folio as adobe rgb 1998 photoshop 7 files to a printing company, and they say that it won’t print properly unless I put it in the right mode.

They want the files as cmyk with a pure black in the black layer, but I don’t know how to do this in photoshop!

Could you tell me how to do this? How do I convert it and how to save it?

Ask the printing company if they have a CMYK profile that they prefer you use – be prepared for them to say profile schmofile. Second best, ask them for their dot gain and total ink limits, and set those up in the custom CMYK settings. Third best, use the SWOP coated (magazine) or uncoated (newspaper) profiles from Photoshop. Also ask them if they will accept psd files, or if they want a separated tiff or dcs or a pdf file.

The type and like art does need to be converted separately so that it is pure black, as opposed to a mixture of all four CMYK inks. This is normally done (in Photoshop) by setting the ink color in the type layer to CMY(0,0,0,100) before flattening and sending them the file.

CMYK is a good opportunity to improve the way your images will look when printed. If you’re going to do much of this, get a copy of Dan Margulis’s Professional Photoshop book. It will be worth its weight in gold, and it is printed on fairly heavy paper stock :-).
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

I have some experience too. In my experience there are plenty of printers around who can handle an RGB file. Unless the purpose is to print something with spot colours etc, there is no reason to bend over backwards because some print shop is unwilling to modernize. For a photograph CMYK is more likely to cause problems than solve them.

—
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist’s Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html

"RSD99" wrote in message

"Tony" posted:
"…
but why not deal with a
printer that can handle YOUR files instead of trying to make your files
conform to some printer?
…"

It doesn’t work that way …

See the posting by ‘Tacit’ directly above your posting. He speaks from experience.

Tony wrote:

I have some experience too. In my experience there are plenty of printers around who can handle an RGB file. Unless the purpose is to print something with spot colours etc, there is no reason to bend over backwards because some print shop is unwilling to modernize. For a photograph CMYK is more likely to cause problems than solve them.

I disagree. Learning how to control CMYK is one of the best things a photographer can do to make sure his or her images look there best at the time it matters most, when the client is looking at them in the final result.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Tony wrote:

I have some experience too. In my experience there are plenty of printers around who can handle an RGB file. Unless the purpose is

to

print something with spot colours etc, there is no reason to bend over backwards because some print shop is unwilling to modernize.

For

a photograph CMYK is more likely to cause problems than solve

them.

I disagree. Learning how to control CMYK is one of the best things a photographer can do to make sure his or her images look there best

at the

time it matters most, when the client is looking at them in the

final

result.

That can only be the case if the printer knows what he’s doing. He should provide particulars for his printing set-up. CMYK separations must be done with a well defined set of parameters+profile concerning paperstock, ink and printing press settings. If the printer doesn’t understand that he needs to provide that pre-press information up-front, I doubt the results are going to be good.

A good service should (be able to) do an RGB to CMYK separation for the client. They will charge you for it, but it is then their responsibility to do an optimal print job. It is also in their interest that the endresult is optimal (if they want repeat assignments in the future that is).

Bart

I have some experience too. In my experience there are plenty of printers around who can handle an RGB file. Unless the purpose is to print something with spot colours etc, there is no reason to bend over backwards because some print shop is unwilling to modernize. For a photograph CMYK is more likely to cause problems than solve them.

–
Your experiences are being misunderstood.
—

I disagree. Learning how to control CMYK is one of the best things a photographer can do to make sure his or her images look there best at the
time it matters most, when the client is looking at them in the finalresult.

–
True – the more the artist understand about the color conversions the better.
It doesn’t matter, so much, who or where the conversions get done. It is important that the creator knows what is going to happen to the color when the conversion is made.
I prefer converting the RGB to CMYK in the RIP –
but one is screwed if the file was not created to convert properly into the CMYK space.
That is why there are preview modes and proofs.
—

That can only be the case if the printer knows what he’s doing. He should provide particulars for his printing set-up. CMYK separations must be done with a well defined set of parameters+profile concerning paperstock, ink and printing press settings. If the printer doesn’t understand that he needs to provide that pre-press information up-front, I doubt the results are going to be good.

A good service should (be able to) do an RGB to CMYK separation for the client. They will charge you for it, but it is then their responsibility to do an optimal print job. It is also in their interest that the endresult is optimal (if they want repeat assignments in the future that is).

—
Many printers "know what they are doing" regarding color reproduction. Most graphic artists haven’t a clue.
In the prepress, we can certainly do wonderful conversions of your RGB or LAB files to CMYK.
However, if you supply us with files containing colors
which absolutely can not be reproduced by lithography –
we can not convert those colors for you.
So,
it IS the responsibility of the artist to be aware of the differences in the modes of color.

There are methods of proofing any file destined for offset printing – even from the small "piece of crap" inkjet printer at home.

MSD

I have some experience too. In my experience there are plenty of printers around who can handle an RGB file.

They "handle" it by changing it to CMYK. An offset press can never, ever, under any circumstances, ever print an RGB image.

All RGB images must end up as CMYK for professional printing. The client can do the conversion or the printer can do the conversion, but either way it WILL be converted.

If a designer or an artist wants to get the absolute best possible results from an image on press, the single greatest thing that designer or artist can do is understand CMYK and learn to work in, color correct in, and separate to CMYK. An artist who does not understand CMYK and does not feel comfortable working in CMYK might work hard to get the perfect image in RGB, then be horrified to see the results in print.

For a photograph CMYK is more
likely to cause problems than solve them.

That statement is so far off-base that it’s hard to know where to begin.

A photograph printed on press is printed in CMYK[1]. End of story. Because RGB and CMYK do not have the same "gamut"–there are RGB colors you can never get in CMYK, and CMYK colors you can never get in RGB–if you want the photograph to look as good as it possibly can, and to have the full range of colors possible, you’ll work on and color correct that photograph in CMYK.

[1] There are additions to CMYK designed to increase the range of colors a photograph can have. One of these is "hexachrome," or CMYOGK. It adds orange and green inks to the standard cyan, magenta, yellow, and black inks. Printing in CMYOGK is expensive, and relatively few printers are accustomed to running Hexachrome jobs or color correcting in Hexachrome. At the moment, it’s more of a curiousity, suitable only for extremely high-end reproduction, than a standard printing technique. In my decade-plus of professional prepress work, I’ve done exactly two jobs in Hexachrome,and seen a total of three jobs printed that way, including the two I worked on.

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

"WharfRat" wrote in message
SNIP

Many printers "know what they are doing" regarding color

reproduction.

I bet most do, but the moment a printer instructs the customer to provide CMYK images, without specifying the parameters, they don’t. There is no such thing as *a* CMYK image, because it will print differently on different paper stock with different ink.

Remember that the OP indicated having limited CMYK knowledge, and was left in uncertainty after having been told to produce a CMYK with a pure Black layer. There doesn’t seem to be too much business sense in telling a customer that without being more specific.

Most graphic artists haven’t a clue.

Probably true, all the more reason to prevent disaster.

In the prepress, we can certainly do wonderful conversions of your RGB or LAB files to CMYK.
However, if you supply us with files containing colors
which absolutely can not be reproduced by lithography –
we can not convert those colors for you.
So, it IS the responsibility of the artist to be aware of the differences in the modes of color.

Correct, but that is not the same as knowing how to produce color separations, especially if the parameters are not known. Basic knowledge about gamut differences is very helpful to prevent disappointment. Depending on the actual application, maybe a different rendering intent can be an acceptable solution.

Given the correct profile and parameters, the Proofing option will give some more guidance as to out-of-gamut colors, which may prompt the user to reconsider the workflow (doing the color balancing and other adjustments in CMYK may or may not be necessary, there are too many unknowns to decide for the OP).

Bart

Any printer who simply says "send it CMYK" without a pile of other information, is just plain too lazy to do the work right. The chances of getting good work are close to zero anyway. Good printers know that the workflow is now RGB and they are capable of working RGB. Until you get into magazine reproduction, spot colour brochures etc, there is no reason to have to deal with the limitations of CMYK – and I suspect that will begin changing soon, if it is not all ready doing so.

—
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist’s Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Tony wrote:

I have some experience too. In my experience there are plenty of printers around who can handle an RGB file. Unless the purpose is to print something with spot colours etc, there is no reason to bend over backwards because some print shop is unwilling to modernize. For a photograph CMYK is more likely to cause problems than solve them.

I disagree. Learning how to control CMYK is one of the best things a photographer can do to make sure his or her images look there best at the time it matters most, when the client is looking at them in the final result.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Tony wrote:

Any printer who simply says "send it CMYK" without a pile of other information, is just plain too lazy to do the work right. The chances of getting good work are close to zero anyway. Good printers know that the workflow is now RGB and they are capable of working RGB. Until you get into magazine reproduction, spot colour brochures etc, there is no reason to have to deal with the limitations of CMYK – and I suspect that will begin changing soon, if it is not all ready doing so.

Not really. "send it CMYK" is normal procedure for many printers that do excellent work. The printer may be confident that their press is close enough to SWOP that they can wangle a good result out of whatever you send them, provided the separation is done reasonably well. Even fewer printers can provide a profile, and this is not a problem. Many high quality coffee table books have been done, and are done exactly this way.

In this particular case, the job had line art and or text as well, so is not possible to send the job in RGB at all. Think about it – if there is no K plate in RGB, where will the type be? And if CMYK is required, the prepress and design folks, will know it, if they know their craft.

I don’t have complete information on this job, but it seems to me if anyone has the right to call someone "too lazy to do the work right", it’s the printer. Yet he appears to be acting constructively by giving additional information to the person preparing the work. The printer should not have to tell the service bureau to put their line art and print on the K plate. This is kindergarten stuff. So I say kudos to the printer for bending over backwards to be helpful and courteous.

Finally, even if the printer consisted of The Three Stooges, the choice is not generally in the hands of the service or design folks. The customer chose both the printer, and you. If there are errors or miscommunications, the odds are at least fifty fifty that the finger of blame will point to the person preparing the material to be printed. Yes, even if Moe dumped yellow ink in the magenta fountain, Larry set up the wrong blanket pressure, and Curly was in charge of registration. This is particularly true if the designer or prepress preson has no knowledge of the "limitations", or the opportunities, of CMYK, and has to be told by the printer that type cannot be separated from an RGB image.

Furthermore, even if the image is a pure photograph, I would reiterate that direct control of CMYK is not a limitation, but an opportunity for a photographer to make his or her pictures look even better on print. No one is in a better position than the photographer, esthetically or technically, to make decisions that make pictures look better.

Yes, RGB may be ripped to CMYK quite well, but PhotoShop gives photographers more control over what their CMYK image will look like in print. It’s an edge. It’s the difference between drugstore developing and doing it a better yourself. And you don’t even have to inhale stop bath in the dark for three hours – what a deal! 🙂
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

So what CMYK profile has the largest color space?

ed wrote:

So what CMYK profile has the largest color space?

Wide Gamut CMYK is a contender for that honor.
http://www.curvemeister.com/tutorials/cmyk/widegamutcmyk/wgc myk.htm

Keep in mind this is designed as a color correction space only, and not intended for print. There are no inks pure enough, no mountain high enough, to represent the colors in WGCMYK.

If you want to peek at gamuts, and compare the various CMYK profiles included with Photoshop, download the free gamut viewer image at: http://www.curvemeister.com/tutorials/gamutviewer/
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

But we are not talking about books. We are talking about photographs. The adjustments are going to be different for every shot and they are going to need individule adjustment – Without an AD to oversee the project. Any printer who says send me CMYK files is either overconfident or usually works for people who aren’t fussy and just reprints until they give up. Sorry I don’t see that as being any good at all.

—
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist’s Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Tony wrote:

Any printer who simply says "send it CMYK" without a pile of other information, is just plain too lazy to do the work right. The chances of getting good work are close to zero anyway. Good printers know that the workflow is now RGB and they are capable of working RGB. Until you get into magazine reproduction, spot colour brochures etc, there is no reason to have to deal with the limitations of CMYK – and I suspect that will begin changing soon, if it is not all ready doing so.

Not really. "send it CMYK" is normal procedure for many printers that do excellent work. The printer may be confident that their press is close enough to SWOP that they can wangle a good result out of whatever you send them, provided the separation is done reasonably well. Even fewer printers can provide a profile, and this is not a problem. Many high quality

coffee

table books have been done, and are done exactly this way.
In this particular case, the job had line art and or text as well, so is

not

possible to send the job in RGB at all. Think about it – if there is no K plate in RGB, where will the type be? And if CMYK is required, the

prepress

and design folks, will know it, if they know their craft.
I don’t have complete information on this job, but it seems to me if

anyone

has the right to call someone "too lazy to do the work right", it’s the printer. Yet he appears to be acting constructively by giving additional information to the person preparing the work. The printer should not have to tell the service bureau to put their line art and print on the K plate. This is kindergarten stuff. So I say kudos to the printer for bending

over

backwards to be helpful and courteous.

Finally, even if the printer consisted of The Three Stooges, the choice is not generally in the hands of the service or design folks. The customer chose both the printer, and you. If there are errors or

miscommunications,

the odds are at least fifty fifty that the finger of blame will point to

the

person preparing the material to be printed. Yes, even if Moe dumped

yellow

ink in the magenta fountain, Larry set up the wrong blanket pressure, and Curly was in charge of registration. This is particularly true if the designer or prepress preson has no knowledge of the "limitations", or the opportunities, of CMYK, and has to be told by the printer that type cannot be separated from an RGB image.

Furthermore, even if the image is a pure photograph, I would reiterate

that

direct control of CMYK is not a limitation, but an opportunity for a photographer to make his or her pictures look even better on print. No

one

is in a better position than the photographer, esthetically or

technically,

to make decisions that make pictures look better.

Yes, RGB may be ripped to CMYK quite well, but PhotoShop gives

photographers

more control over what their CMYK image will look like in print. It’s an edge. It’s the difference between drugstore developing and doing it a better yourself. And you don’t even have to inhale stop bath in the dark for three hours – what a deal! 🙂
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

So what CMYK profile has the largest color space?

That isn’t what’s important, because one CMYK image is not like another. A CMYK image that might work just fine on a sheetfed press on coated paper is completely unprintable on a Web press on newsprint. So the real question is, how can you get the widest gamut for the particular press and paper you’re using?

—
Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html