Are any of you people making money designing… I mean for a living.
I have been optimisticlly plugging at this for 3-4 years now and cant seem to make any money at all. I have the talent, the equiptment, the desire, but no matter how hard I try I only get like 1 crappy client a year thats usually worth about $300.00 at the most. I get interesteed people but never result in anything real.
What am I doing wrong?
Ive looked for jobs from employers and the best wage I can find is $8.00 per hour. I wouldnt even boot my computer for that much money. My portfolio is totally nice and very competitive in skills and creativity. Im getting to the end of my rope and considering going back to the manual labor field just to survive.
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I’m not getting rich or anything, but I have a new car, house in the country and I get to save a little $$$ each month.
So you could say I’m doing okay.
But it’s a crappy market out there for design jobs. If you get something, hold onto it.
It sounds to me like what you need is to get out there and promote yourself more. Make some business contacts, create a self-promotional piece and mail/hand deliver it to prospective employers and small business owners. Trust me, the small business is where the money is at. They may not keep you in $30K per year retainers, but with enough small clients who need print ads, business cards, identity packages and the like you could easily pull in a few grand a month. Make up for quality with quantity. Establish your identity and build word of mouth. If you provide a good service at a reasonable rate, you’ll get where you want to go.
I can’t possibly analyze your freelance efforts via a forum (there are simply too many things to look at – your self-promo marketing efforts, interpersonal skills, salesmanship, design skills and qualifications, etc.) but what types of places are you interviewing that only pay $8.00/hr for a design position? That is so far below the average entry-level position it’s a joke…
The industry as a whole is suffering, IMO due to the glut of untalented people who happen to own (or have downloaded a pirated copy of) graphics software and now think they are designers**, coupled with the unfortunate fact that far too many people cannot tell the difference between this type of designer and a qualified professional, but $8.00/hr (slightly better than $16k/year before taxes) is laughable for even the lowliest of production artists.
Do you have a good portfolio? Experience? Education? All three have a huge influence in your hirability, as well as the pay rate you would be hired at.
FWIW if it helps you in your freelance efforts my rates start at $30/hour (plus expenses) and go up from there depending on the specifics of the project. (I often will very often quote a flat rate for a project when all the details are clear up front, but the hourly rate goes into those calculations.)
Brian
** I own some really nice tools that I’ve purchased over the years for house renovations and other projects, tools that a professional would certainly use (as opposed to buying the cheapest thing I could find in Home Depot) but I would never EVER think to sell my carpentry services to anyone else. Why this phenomenon occurs so frequently in the design industry baffles the hell out of me.
First off, what kind of thing do you want to do? PS can be used by a variety of people: graphics designers, Web designers, photographers etc.
In all cases, there is a chicken and egg problem. You really have to have a comprehensive portfolio, which you can only really get by doing some PS work in your spare time, whilst doing what it takes to get money to live in the meantime.
There’s no magic formula or shortcut. You need talent [let’s assume you have that], the right attitude [?] and perseverance in spades.
Elance <http://www.elance.com/> is one option. I was making easy money in addition to my local clients when elance was in beta. When the site first came out it was completely free. Unfortunately it now costs quite a bit to participate and even then you have to win the bids to get the jobs. The lowest price you can pay is $240 a year plus an 8.75% transaction fee for each accepted project.
It might still be worth a try. Worst case you should break even based on your track record.
I will say this $8 an hour is hardly worth thinking about but I got some of my best clients by doing the first job for a discount rate or at times for free. Once you do a few jobs people will ask your clients who did their work even if you didn’t make a dime on the job you can still benefit from free advertising.
Doing free one page web site in exchange for a small "Designed By" link at the bottom of the page can sometimes be a gold mine.
It is a buyers market right now and you have to realize that most people don’t realize how much of a difference it can make to hire the right person. Do a project for them and let them try someone else that is in that low price range. If you truly have the talent they will be back.
I think it’s a combination of your attitude, interpersonal skills, and unprofessionalism.
You can’t even post intelligently, for chrissakes! Punctuation, grammar and misspellings present more of you than your portfolio, and your 1 "crappy" customer is still 1 more customer than you had before. If THEY ever get wind of how much you (don’t) appreciate them, you can rest assured that they too, will go away…
Sounds like you SHOULD go back to manual labor if you cannot achieve the correct state of mind to offer SERVICE as a "designer"…it takes a whole lot more than being able to make sharp images with Photoshop.
As yours often does, but at least you have valid credentials and you do provide valuable, insightful information when you’re not being snippy. We can all do with an attitude adjusment from time to time.
I once heard someone remark: "Hey, your’re not talented enough to be as big an ***hole as you are."
Just forget it this is the biggest joke I swear. I cant beleive you guys are acting like this. I came to you guys with a question about how you are doind it and you give me crap. This was a shock to be honest with you and you call your selves professionals. What a joke.
Well thanks for nothing later,
Thought I could actually talk to you guys on the level … obviously I was totally wrong.
It is a tough market, but if your portfolio is good and you are REALLY hitting the pavement, you will get work. The talented people always do.
But only you can answer whether you are working hard.
Maybe you need to take some design and art courses and broaden your scope.
Also, do have professionals critique your portfolio, you might need to tighten it up a bit. Put your portfolio online for people to see here. You might feel like a rabbit in a coyote pack…. …..but that’s the real world (well, maybe not, these forums are kind of a perversion of the real world). 🙂
Whining? I hardley think the post is whiny…. Its stating my current position in life. What do u think this is a joke! Im screwed right now and looking for advice to get me out of this rut and you guys are acting like a bunch of children. WTF
Thought I could actually talk to you guys on the level … obviously I was totally wrong.
You have a lot to learn about life and social adjustment, dude. You come into these forums fresh off of god knows what street, and act like a troll talking shite about things of which you know nothing, disseminating incorrect information and prejudicial allegations, and then expect this community of people that have been interacting together for years to accept you. You have to earn that acceptance, and that means playing by the rules of the community, or finding another community that has different standards. If you hadn’t come in with all the baggage and the attitude, things would be different.
Read your original post again. You come off like an arrogant / angry child. That’s fine for when you have a whole bunch of clients and people lined up looking for you to work for them. But right now, you need to tone it down and get to work.
Let me give you one more piece. Treat every client, no matter how small, very well. Bend over backwards to please them and most of all LISTEN to what they say. I have couple of clients who tell me that the number one reason they use me is because of my listening skills, not my design skills.
I give them what they ask for. If I think they need to go in a different direction I will give them some advice, but in the end, they get what they want, even if means that the work won’t see the light of day in my portfolio.
Yes. He, of course, was furious when I made the comment. A fury that was fanned by others who heard me make the comment murmur their agreement. With a smary grin he announced that he would be telephoning the producer to have me fired. He neglected to take into account that this producer was my personal friend and who hired me in the first place.
The director made the call to the producer while I was standing there – giving me the evil-eye all the while. He told the producer what I said. Then a strange look came over his face while the producer spoke. The director turned and walked away still talking on his cell phone. The incident was never mentioned by him again.
That evening I asked the producer, my friend, what he said. He said that he told the director that it was true: he wasn’t talented enough to be that big…et cetera. Just my friend’s way of saying that there is no excuse for such behavior.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Myself, looking in from the outside; I personally think that this whole post is a touch over the top. DV8R, maybe you should take heed to the ‘constructive’ criticisms here regarding becoming a designer, and also take heed to the other criticisms which should help your ‘net etiquette’ out and maybe people won’t be so un-eager to help you.
Everyone else, chill a bit yeah? He’s new (as am I :P)
Making money and being a talented designer often have little to do with each other.
If you are talking in terms of being self-employed, then the talent you most need is in selling – both yourself and your product. There’s a hell of a lot involved with being self-employed (having been so for the past 24 years, I know!) and the ability to design or even execute others’ design often comes well down the list.
You have to be a COMPETENT designer, sure, but you also have to be a GOOD salesperson, a competent book-keeper, a competent Buyer, a good administrator and a lot of other skills as well….
Sometimes you can get noticed by doing pro bono work. LOTS of it. Find a cause or three you believe in… a church, a charity, some "save the (fill in the blank)" outfit who needs printed materials or a web site. Offer your services and see what happens. I started doing this sort of thing a few years ago and it turned out quite nicely.
Don’t turn any job down. Invoices aren’t your cup of tea? Tough. Design the best invoice you can. Client wants a one color piece on cheap paper? Make it happen, and make it outstanding. You will be given design work that really doesn’t spark your interest or seem to be a good fit for your abilities… thrive on these jobs because they are invaluable learning experiences. How you handle this type of work will either make you a designer or it will drive you from the field. If it makes you a designer, eventually someone will ask, "Who did this? I’d like to talk to him about a job."
I agree with most of the other posts, attitude means a lot in this industry.
One thing that is often overlooked by new designers is the company they want to apply to and work for. Keep in mind that not every company goes to a design house for their web sites, promo materials, etc… There are plenty of medium to large companies who do their stuff in-house, AND in every industry, from banking to convenience store chains to non-profit agencies. A lot of companies have Communications departments and Marketing Departments, both of which can use a good designer.
Thanks guys I do try to be the best I can be and to keep a professional realistic attitude about the things I do. I do really think the majority of the problem I am having is that I live in a suburban environment. Its actually a Steel production area in Northwest Indiana. There are a few pretty established firms here already that are definetly hording the majority of the clients. The major competitor is my Uncles firm … Griffin Media Design. They are nationaly known and retain many high profile clients such as McDonalds, Motorola, The Chicago Sun Times, The Chicago Cubs, the list goes on and on. They also for very good reason have most of the clients in the Northwest Indiana area as well.
The thing is this. I did some freelance work for him a couple years back but he didnt want to pay me for work unless the client accepted it. This is not how I do business. He wanted sometimes very complex comps for no fee… unless he could sell them on it. Ok Im not complaining because when I did get paid I got paid extremely well. The work seemed to diminish as time went on. Not real sure why. Doesnt really matter now anyways. He used several different designers in the area for all types of jobs. I was obviously not as cheap as someone else was.
So maybe I came off the wrong way in the beginning but I really did not mean to come off as whining at all. I wanted to tell it like it was, and thats what I did. So if I offended any of you … which obviously I did…. I did not intentionally mean too and I apologize.
Im thinking that I need to simply move to a denser populated area… maybe LA or Chicago. Ive tried to get things going with clients in other states via the internet but that doesnt seem to be working for me either. I have a great deal of respect for my clients Im working with and always will and dont need to be told by anyone how to retain a client. This is not the focus of the forum post. The focus was getting them not retaining them. Now I dont know how your area is but we cannot just walk into businesses and present in my area anymore they frown on companies who do and the word spreads fast here. Ive attempted some phone calls but always run into the same thing …. we do our own stuff….. or one of our family members do our stuff, or my sons a designer "pirate wannabe" This is very very common in my area. So I think I just need to relocate and start fresh. Or maybe not… I dont know at this point but your suggestions are helping me along with my decission.
Whatever im sick of this crap from you guys. This forum is a joke there are tons of better resources out there anyway and Ive obviously made a huge mistake thinking this was a good one to come to. You people are the biggest bunch of bitchy little cunts Ive ever ran across in my entire life and I wouldnt even be interested in sticking around here for another minute with you faggots.
For all you guys who were cool from the start thanks for the help and dont fall into this heap of shit. Find a better place to get info .. trust me theres a ton of better resources than this one.
Can you say bipolar, boys and girls? Sure, sure you can.
Signs and symptoms of mania (or a manic episode) include:
Increased energy, activity, and restlessness Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood Extreme irritability Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another Distractibility, can’t concentrate well Little sleep needed Unrealistic beliefs in one’s abilities and powers Poor judgment Spending sprees A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual Increased sexual drive Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior Denial that anything is wrong
Quite a list of bad traits for a (probable) 12-13 year old. I hope he grows out of it.
Just forget it this is the biggest joke I swear. I cant beleive you guys
are acting like this. I came to you guys with a question about how you are doind it and you give me crap. This was a shock to be honest with you and you call your selves professionals. What a joke.
Well thanks for nothing later,
Thought I could actually talk to you guys on the level … obviously I was
Whining? I hardley think the post is whiny…. Its stating my current
position in life. What do u think this is a joke! Im screwed right now and looking for advice to get me out of this rut and you guys are acting like a bunch of children. WTF
Sweetie, quit being mad at the world and just take a deep breath. Getting a life someimes helps, too.
I am not sure that complaining about the responsibilities that you have been given is the best way to get further responsibilities. (The use of the word power strikes a red flag with me. Not that I am anyone who has any powers or responsibilities.)
I do not know if I am angry for coming late to this thread or thankful for not joining the fray.
BTW, making money is the easy part. Of course by easy, I mean time consuming, consistency, attention to detail, go get them attitude, say what you will do and then do what you say…and this is before design comes into play.
Um, you guys aren’t foolish enough to not see that this post has a different login and e-mail address are you. I see that some of you did fall for this flame-bait post but seriously guys come on.
As to the challenge of making money in the design business my number one piece of advice is DONT QUIT. If you don’t believe your own hype how can you sell it to someone else (not to say that you should believe ALL of your own hype though 🙂
-skacey
"DV8R" wrote in message
I changed my mind about this forum!
Whatever im sick of this crap from you guys. This forum is a joke there
are tons of better resources out there anyway and Ive obviously made a huge mistake thinking this was a good one to come to. You people are the biggest bunch of bitchy little cunts Ive ever ran across in my entire life and I wouldnt even be interested in sticking around here for another minute with you faggots. Later bitches FUCK ALL YOU CUNTS!!!!!
