I hope Anne Shelbourne sees this question, because she has the same scanner. I have a Nikon Coolscan 5000ED and am using it with PS7. Firstly, am scanning negs and slides. At 8 bit, am getting murky blacks in shadows. Also, used Digital Ice and Dee and found that some of the PS7 automatic functions, like Auto Levels and Auto Contrast doesn’t work. Also, dark scans, but compensated somewhat. This is in slide scanning for right now..color. Also really can’t figure how to adjust color in PS7. Wondering if others are having the same issues when using the scanner with the attached editing capabilities Also, if I use 16 bit, there are some tools which also don’t work in PS7 with 16 bit. I am worrying that if i scan the negs, I will have a hard time getting correct color for eventually printing them out. Any help out there?? Thanks. DO I sound dumb??? well this is new to me.
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I can’t get auto color nor auto contrast or auto levels to work with the scanned negative, even in 8-bit, after scanning in nikon scan 5000ED, after using any of the digital ice programs. thanks for this info, tho and i will read it.
<< Firstly, am scanning negs and slides. At 8 bit, am getting murky blacks in shadows. At 8 bit, am getting murky blacks in shadows. >>
I always scan in 14-bit and use Multi-Sample set to 4x.
You really need to spend some time studying NikonScan’s Help — particularly the section on Nikon Scan Palettes. There you will learn about the use of histograms, curves and analog gain so that you can map the information in your film to the best possible density-range and color balance.
<< Dee and found that some of the PS7 automatic functions, like Auto Levels and Auto Contrast doesn’t work. >> They do work — if you like auto-anything (which I usually do not!).
<<Also, dark scans, but compensated somewhat. >>> That is what setting black and white points, and using the LCH Editor Analog Gain, are for.
You may find the tutorials on this site helpful: <http://www.marginalsoftware.com/> but it seems that you need to put in some serious study of the science and art of digital image editing in Photoshop too.
"Photoshop 7 Artistry" by Barry Haynes; and "Real World Photoshop" by Bruce Fraser and David Blatner would get you off to a good start.
<< I can’t get auto color nor auto contrast or auto levels to work with the scanned negative, even in 8-bit, after scanning in nikon scan 5000ED, after using any of the digital ice programs. >>
If you want to use the Auto- settings, you do that BEFORE scanning: ICE is part of the post-scanning process.
Again, see Nikon Help on the use of the Curves Palette and the Digital ICE4 Advanced Palette.
thanks anne…you are right about some serious study, on my part. however, i cannot scan in 14 bit with the 5000ed…where is that? also, using ice is in the scanner mode, using PS tools, (auto) is after the scanned image comes into PS. I just want to see what my options are. Also, yes, the problem is that I read what Nikon had to say and also went on their web site,but I do need to know more, and how to apply it. I have been doing film photography, and let someone else do the adj work, but that situation is over. These couple thousand scans I need to do, needs to be done in 2 months, and I doubt that I will be able to adj them before leaving the country. I looked for all the info I could get in using analog gain, etc…so I will visit the site you suggested. Also, I can’t always see, in the preview, what really needs to be done, because it is so small. when I make it bigger, it breaks up, so I am amazed at how much you and the other pros can do with such small images. Thank you for the info. Between you and the rest of the people, I will be kept busy for a while, (hope i get the scanning done.)
If you are on such a tight schedule and have yet to acquire a lot of basic knowledge, I would suggest a more automated scanning program called VueScan. You can download a free demo, fully functional version from <http://www.hamrick.com>. Admittedly, as Ann will be quick to point out, this is not as versatile as the Nikon software, but it just might give you satisfactory results in very short order.
The first thing that you need to do is to set-up your NikonScan Preferences. (Use the Help menu to see how to do that.)
Under the Preview section, uncheck both Digital Ice and Multi sampling — you don’t need them at this stage.
Now examine the Tool Palettes in detail. You can get instructions on using the settings from the Help menu and I suggest that you print out each of the pages and study them.
You also need to look in the Settings menu because you can also make choices for palette settings (including the 14-bit option) from there.
Always scan at the full 4,000 ppi resolution. If your color management settings have been done correctly, and your monitor is any good, you can pull the Preview pane out to your full screen size and see an exact replication of what you are going to get when you click the "Scan" button.
Sorry, but this is going to take some work on your part — there is no short-cut way to learn how to drive a scanner!
I once wrote a piece that described how I use NikonScan which is referenced in this thread: Wade Zimmerman "Scanning and Photoshop, Triumphs, Troubles, Tips, TechnigueΒ " 9/14/03 9:36pm </cgi-bin/webx?14>
I don’t seem to have kept a copy, and the link to Wade’s website no longer works, but if he, or anyone else, kept a copy they might like to add it to this thread as I don’t have time to re-write the whole thing at the moment.
OK.. I will check in in a day or so…..am checking all this out. Thanks by the way, I am still getting grainy images on the desktop (re: my grainy image posting) and also, scanning film gives much better results than slides.. OK….
In OSX, I normally scan directly in NikonScan rather than through the NikonScan Photoshop plug-in.
My custom defaults are set as follows: 4000 ppi at 100%; Color Management ON and set to match my Photoshop settings (RGB = Adobe RGB 1998 and Monitor = Custom Profile); Preferences (Advanced): Sample point 1×1; Black = 0.0 White = 0.05 RGB gamma set at 1.21 and the output levels at 242 and 12;
Analog Gain: Try 0.0 first. If the shadows are too dark (the L Histogram is too far to the left) try increasing AG in steps of +0.33; if the Highlights lack detail, decrease AG to center the L Histogram in its window. Once you have set a suitable AG value, click "Redraw".
Scanner Extras/Multi-sample Scanning = 4x Unsharp Mask: OFF Color Balance: OFF (Use the Curves instead.) ICE on Normal; GEM at 1 (lowest setting); ROC at 0.
Then, for each image preview, I usually do the following: 1. Make any changes to my default settings that may be necessary. 2. Move the LCH Editor’s Lightness bottom sliders to fit the Histogram. 3. Move the LCH Editor’s Lightness side sliders to provide good output values. This might be 4 for the lower one (black point clip) and 244 for the upper one (Highlight clip). 4. Adjust Chroma gamma if necessary (1.11 is often good).
5. Go to the Curves Panel: Move the R, G and B sliders to fit their histograms or use the White and Black eyedroppers. [I do the former.] In the Composite RGB Curve: Set your output clips as needed, and adjust the shape of the curve to adjust contrast selectively. [I don’t use the gamma (middle) slider for this.]
6. Adjust the gamma/shape of the individual color curves to correct color if necessary.
This gives me nice open shadows in the 50s and 60s (look in the Info Palette to check this) and a scan that needs very little, if any, further correction in Photoshop.
7. Having made the above adjustments for each image separately, I then set the sample rate at 4x (more than this just increases the time with no tangible improvement).
8. If this image is typical of others in your collection, Save your Curve Settings with an appropriate name so that you can use those Curves again in the future.
9. To save a lot of time in the future: In the main Tools palette/Settings drop-down menu: Choose "Save Settings" and name them. You will then be able to quickly set all palettes next time that you use Nikon Scan. Save settings for different types of film. Then choose the one that you use most often and "Save User Settings.
10. Select all the frames to be scanned and press the Scan button.
11. Go back to Photoshop to work on existing scans and/or turn on the Espresso machine.
Once I have the scans, I do any further work at 16-bits in Photoshop such as spotting (although ICE leaves very few spots):
Area contrast or color changes (using Curves and Hue/Sat., making a history snapshot, undoing then repeating the same steps for a different area. I then use the history brush to paint in the changes in just my chosen place — usually without bothering to make a Selection.)
If you are using Photoshop 7.0.1: While you are still in 16-bit, go into Lab mode and run USM on just the L channel; make snapshot; undo; and paint-in the sharpening at varying percentages in the L channel. Then return to RGB and, only at that point, change to 8-bit mode.
With Photoshop CS, which permits Layers in 16-bit files, you can do this in a duplicated Luminosity layer.
Oh my god!!! I think my mouth is hanging open. My mind is still hanging out . Thank you!!! This is really a lot. I need to hit the books with this too. I really appreciate your help! All of you…so much good feedback and help! Doing the film makes it esier to do this and check it all out easier than the slides, which ar difficult, at this point of my learning curve.
I have a question..ha! in all this. You say I can convert to 8-bit. must I?? I mean, i don’t have all functionality of PS7 tools, but I have read different opinions, and they say 8 bit falls apart after some time. This is mostly for archival purposes. I am hoping to get PS CS, but for now, it is 7. I can see the difference between 8 and 16. Thank you.
hi g. ballard, I am reposting this here, as you asked.
thanks for the pages. i have 2 questions. #1)why do you say to set color synch and monitor display to x22 5oct02 (PS9)?? Mac my epson neg scanner says set to apple rgb and adobe is supposidly adobe 1998 and my monitor is at it’s own setting.( I, of course, to admit, with all the feedback i have gotten about monitor and scanner settings, am back at the first ones, <up to this last feedback>the rest of my trials coming out muddy or off color…so I get scared to mess it up too much… sounds rediculous, doesn’t it…also the way i spelled rediculous!). you answered my question on adobe forums, but i still am confused with monitor display. i will not be printing out all of the scanned negs and we don’t even know how they will be printed.
Also, if it is not color managed, how can you tell that the colors you are working with will be the ones you’ll get?? I read where you said that Photoshop will, in the end, produce the correct colors, but if they are not managed in the first place, and i choose how I want it, how will I know that Photoshop will replicate it??? thanks again cd
thanks again.. I did download the tests. It took 49 minutes. (What a drag this dial-up) I will work on them. chandi devi
You may have been thinking of the continuing deterioration every time you save or resave a JPEG file, but that’s an unrelated issue. You can convert a 16-bit image to 8-bit mode and keep it as a PSD or TIFF file –or any other format that supports 16-bits.
If your statement that "8 bit falls apart after some time" were anywhere near accurate, all files containing layers in any Photoshop version prior to Photoshop 8 would be useless by now, and angry users would have burnt Adobe headquarters down. π
I really appreciate you answering me, because i must sound like a pest. But since i need to read up, and I guess I believe what people say, I need to voice it out to have people like you and all the rest of you who take the time to answer me, to set it correctly. Thanks. Now, wouldn’t 16-bit be better for archival purposes?? I think i am trying to push the envelope, since i cannot use some of the tools in PS7… but if i get CS I will be able to.
#1)why do you say to set color synch and monitor display to x22 5oct02
(PS9)??
You are kidding, right?
Also, if it is not color managed, how can you tell that the colors you
are working with will be the ones you’ll get??
If the application is a "dumb" unmanaged application — you can’t!
But if you calibrate an accurate monitor profile, set Photoshop to US PREPRESS DEFAULTS, and honor the file’s embedded profile — you will be able to PROOF the file accurately on the monitor.
And if you have a good printer profile, you will be able to PROOF the file accurately on the printer.
No, you don’t sound like a pest at all. I just found that statement genuinely funny.
16-bit images are better if originally captured at 16-bits. That’s clear. (You would not gain anything by converting an 8-bit image to 16 bits, of course). But that is totally independent from "archival purposes".
Certainly you want to keep 16-bit images as such, but the notion that the passage of time or archival purposes have anything to do with it is what’s very, very funny. π Digital files are not like bananas or eggs.
When you rename your custom monitor profile, you will highlight its name there.
I chose that monitor profile in Displays>Color (highlighted profile) because it is the only ICC ColorSync profile ColorSpace that accurately describes my monitor for Photoshop.
In other words, if I set anything other than an accurate custom profile there, my monitor will not be accurate.
BTW, We get the "overwhelming" comments here alot on these issues, you are not alone, just take some time to read the material and digest the information…
cluck! cluck! thanks again…. so an 8-bit is just fine enough to keep for eternity (however long that is). OK… so either way is safe… If I want to keep 16-bit, I guess I will try to scan as Ann has written and hope i will not need the extra tools…. or else wait to adjust until I get CS. Thanks again… I am glad you have a sense of humor!
g ballard Thanks…did I say i had egg on my face?? I have heard from all the people who have responded to my questions and have helped me, to TRUST what i read on your site. Thanks again.
