This is an issue of color management. Elements would be the only piece of software installed on your computer that is a color managed program, so there are some monitor calibration problems if you’re getting an extreme variation in prints from Elements versus prints from other sources. I did a brief post on this subject earlier today. It’s #1 on this thread.
Beth Haney "After editing my pictures look great until I open them with Explorer?!" 1/10/04 8:06am </cgi-bin/webx?13/0>
Post back if you calibrate and still are having the problem. It might also be that you need to install an Ignore EXIF utility, although the symptoms don’t sound quite right for that. The monitor should be calibrated in any event.
I have an epson photo stylus 960 and am getting the exact same problem which caused me to come searching for answers in the forums. i’ll look at your post Beth.
I’ll check into this. Is it normal that the picture looks fine of when displayed by Elements and then look "off" when doing the print preview. I guess I thought it would print as displayed on the screen, but it is displaying differently in the print preview.
Cambridgexx – let me know how you make out!
Thanks,
Dawn
I think Beth is correct in that you have color management problem. Elements is a color managed application, the others on your computers are not color managed. It is vitally important that you have an accurate display profile for your monitor, either created with the Adobe Gamma Utility, <
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7-colour/ps7_2.htm> , supplied by the manufacturer ( <
http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/1403e.htm> ) , or created by another commercial utility which you could purchase.
Note in this diagram, that your image is re-interpretted by color profiles every step it takes through your computer, Ian Lyons Image Flow <
http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.lyons/ps7-colour/ps7_color.gi f>
.. That’s why it’s important that the profiles involved are accurate.
There are good tutorials on printing from Photoshop/Elements at Ian Lyons site, <
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/> .
Dawn,
"but it is displaying differently in the print preview. " The print preview is not designed to accurately reflect the colors and appearance of the output page, only the placement on the paper. It’s not unusual to have a preview look " not quite right", but itf your print settings are correct and monitor profiled, you should get a pretty close match in your final print.
🙂
Brent
I should make clear that the print preview that I am talking about is the Epson 1280 print preview screen, not the Photoshop Elements screen. Before the image prints, you can select to view a preview and that is where I am seeing the over abundance of red tones.
Thanks,
Dawn
Dawn,
That’s how my Epson print preview looks, too. I’ve never used it before, but it’s quite ugly ! My prints , however, are quite good. My guess is you should not bother with that preview. It’s possible that if you were doing either PIM ( Print Image Matching ) or EXIF2 printing, it might be more accurate, but that’s just a guess.
At the time you print, Elements uses the Adobe Color Engine (ACE) to convert your RGB image to the CMYK data for your printer. Elements lacks the softproofing ability ( which Photoshop includes ) to see this conversion on the screen. That’s why I think it’s unlikely that any previews are going to be accurate. Even using Photoshop, the previews are not colormanaged .
🙂
Brent
Brent,
The problem is that the image looks like the one printed at the lab on the monitor screen but is printing with a RED tinge from the 1280. I would be happy if it printed like what I am seeing on the screen. The epson print preview is closer to the actual output in that it shows a red tinge on the print preview. I am so puzzled by this! I wonder if I should forget elements for printing to my 1280 and only use it to edit the photos that I print at the lab. Seems like there should be something that can correct this – I am just at a loss now for what it is.
Thanks,
Dawn
Dawn,
It is probably a color management problem but we need more information as to your Elements settings before we can help. Could you answer a few questions?
First, from the menu select the edit item then select the color settings item. There are 3 options "no color management", "limited color management", and "full color management". Which do you have selected?
Next, again from the main menu select file then select print preview. There is a check box labeled "show more options" near the bottom. Make sure that is checked. Underneath that is a selection box with two options "color management" and "output", select "color management". Now, there is a section labeled "source space" what does it say is the document source profile? Underneath that, there is a section labled "print space" and a selection box labeled "Profile:". What exactly does it say for this item? There are many choices for this one, please be specific.
Finally, did you ever download the ignore exif utility from Adobe and if so, did you use it?
If you answer these questions for us, it will give us a better idea where the problem lies. We may need to ask additional questions depending on what you tell us.
Bob
all my problems went away when i used the icc provided by Samsung for my SyncMaster 191T lcd display. I hope your monitor manufacturer has supplied you with one or that you can find one on their web site.
Great idea – I am going to download that now and try it.
Ok – downloaded the monitor updated monitor information from Compaq (I have a S7500) and also the ignore EXITF utility. I printed the picture once with respect EXITF and next after doing ignore EXITF and they were identical. They still have a RED tinge to them that is not displayed on the screen or evident in the picture that I had processed from the LAB.
My color settings are Full color management; on print preview I have selected color management Print Space Profile is Epson Stylyus 1280 Photo Quality Glossy Film and the Intent is Relative Colorimetric and Use Black Point Compensation is selected.
Thanks for the help.
Dawn
Dawn,
Change the Print Space profile to "Printer Color Management " and be sure you are printing on real Epson paper ( HeavyWeight Matte paper is a good , inexpensive one to start with ) . Select that Epson Matte paper in the Epson driver as paper type. Elements should be either in "limited color mode" or " full color mode" under Edit > Color Settings to precisely define the color gamut for the print driver . If your display profile is accurate , you will get a pretty good match ( unless you have a partially clogged nozzle, cyan clogged with give you a red shift ) .
🙂
Brent
I’m coming into this late, but you saying you’re using Full Color Management caught my attention. Have you tried printing with NO color management? I don’t use it, nor do several other regulars. I don’t recognize some of the terms you’re using, since I don’t run Epsons, but – just in case this is applicable – make sure you never use color management settings in both Elements and your printer. Pick one or the other, but both will definitely cause poor color because of conflicting information generated. If that’s helpful information, good; if I just repeated something someone else already said – I’m sorry! 🙂 (I’m in a hurry and didn’t go back for a full review of posts.)
Beth,
I just went back and selected no color management under Edit and the print came out the same as before with an ugly RED tinge to everything.
I am going to try to print again with the selection that Brent has suggested. I will post the results in a minute or two.
Thanks,
Dawn
using real epson paper, i am using premium glossy, helped a lot also.
my settings are:
color management
profile: Samsung icm profile
intent: saturation
use black point compensation
In the Advanced tab of the print driver i left color management alone, it has color controls selected.
Ok – I did as Brent suggested and changed the print space to printer color management and went back to Full color management. The print has lost the overall RED tinge, but all of the "richness" of the photo is gone. I’m not sure how to explain it, but the shadows are gone and it is a little lighter than the one I had done at the photo lab. It still has a little more pink to it than the one I had printed but it is much less than before. It is just not as pleasing to the eye.
Dawn
Cambridgexx,
We found out a couple years ago to make sure the user had genuine paper recommended by the printer mfg. We went on and on, with one topic and the problem turned out to be some cheap paper. That’s why I always start my stuff with the Epson Matte paper, its takes color well and its cheap to experiment with. That premium glossy is very nice , have you looked at this other thread, which talks about the Galerie Smooth Glossy paper available at some Sam’s club stores ? The paper is really inexpensive , here in Michigan, and it seems to behave just like the Premium Glossy . Jodi Frye "Review of Inkjet Papers" 1/16/04 8:48am </cgi-bin/webx?13/61>
🙂
Brent
Dawn,
Sorry I was late getting back to you. I believe the problem is with the profile you have chosen for the printer. You have everything else configured correctly for full color management (I’m assuming you did calibrate the monitor). The color profile you mentioned (Epson Stylus 1280 Photo Quality Glossy Film)sounds funny. Normally, "film" refers to printing on a transparency film for overhead projectors and the like. This looks like a profile for printing on transparency film and not paper. Do you have a profile that just says something like "Epson Stylus Photo 1280"?
The profile will be different for each combination of printer, ink, and paper and best results would need a precise profile. However, with the Epson generic printer profile and Epson ink and paper, you should get acceptable results.
In lieu of the printer profile, you can select the option to use the printer driver like Brent suggested. In this case, the printer driver will make the color space conversion and the print will be subject to the settings in your printer driver (which you can select and modify in the printer properties dialog — for Epson there is usually a custom mode with an advanced option to make the changes.) If you use this option and the brightness, contrast, or color is off you will probably need to check the settings and make adjustments.
I get good results with the printer profile setting and don’t use the printer driver option. I did use the printer driver option for a while but found I needed to tweak the settings to get good results.
You can make a custom profile for your printer. There is a discussion on this forum somewhere that talked about this and the service that does that. You can also buy a hardware device that lets you do it yourself but that is much more costly.
Check your profile listing again and see if there is a generic profile for the printer that doesn’t say "film" and see if that works. Once you get this worked out, it should be clear sailing. Don’t get discouraged.
Bob
Dawn
Did you get a definitive answer to your problem? I have the EXACT same problem…..looks good when working on the image, but when going to print using the printers profile for the paper I’ve selected, image prints with a nasty red tint. This tint also shows up in the print preview. I’ve calibrated my monitor with optical spyder. This just recently started – up until this weekend I could print without problem, and was getting excellent results using the Epson Premium Luster profile in the Print with Preview. Using perceptual or relative colormetrics. I’ve tried turning off color management, setting it to full management, still get the same error. When I select the same as source profile in print w/preview box, the picture doesn’t come out red, but the colors aren’t up to par. It is just like someone flipped a magic switch and I don’t know what to do.
-Sonny
Sonny,
Have you looked at Ian Lyons’ printing tutorial , <
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7_print/ps7_print_mac_2.h tm> . If you are using Color management, there are only a few combinations of the many possible combinations of settings that will work correctly. The Epson driver gives you a lot of control over the output, BUT , that also means there are more wrong ways to do things than right ways.
🙂
Brent
Thanks for all the input – I will get this solved LOL.
Any way I have a quick question: When I do the print preview there are lots of options to change there such as print space and color management and I have made the changes recommended there. When I chose print from that screen it brings up another Print window (I assume the default print dialog for the printer as that comes up in all my programs) and then there are additional options for paper type, etc. If I have set the paper profile in the print space what do I choose on the standard print dialog screen or do I just leave it alone. Usually it comes up with standard paper as the default.
Thanks,
Dawn
Usually a red tint indicates double color management.
My workflow is to manage from Photoshop or Elements. I use Adobe RGB as the document profile. Select the icc profile for the printer paper I’m using in the Print Preview dialog Color Management area (Premium Luster for example). Then click OK, in the second dialog, click properties to call up the Printer Driver, choose advanced and select the ICM radio button (this is on the Epson 2200 driver, but should be similar), and then select No Color Adjustment. I make sure the paper selected matches my choice and in Layout choose centered and use either Photo or Best Photo quality.
I get better results this way than turning off Color Management in PSE or PS and letting the printer handle it. But that can vary by printer. I think the profiles that Epson ships for their papers are very good.
Rich
P.S. This is written from memory, so it may not be 100% accurate as to naming of dropdowns etc.
With my Epson SP 780, which is probably similar to your 1280 as far as settings go, I turn Color Management OFF, use the default printer driver settings, and use ONLY Epson paper, mostly Matte Heavyweight. I get excellent results this way, but changing to other papers, in particular Kodak, is a disaster.
Bert
I looked at that Adobe KnowledgeBase article 321601, but it doesn’t explain how to implement for PSE, only Photoshop
I’m not familiar with that particular KnowledgeBase article, but many things relevant to Photoshop will also be relevant to PSE. PSE 1 is built on the same engine as Photoshop 6.0, and PSE 2 is built on the same engine as Photoshop 7.0. The workings of the program are about the same, but Elements lacks a number of features found on full Photoshop.
