Cameron,
Try using the "Rectangular Marquee" instead. On the options bar, pick the dropdown next to "normal" and use fixed size. I believe the dimensions will be show in pixels. If not, simply enter your dimensions like this 800 px and so on.
You can then clik in the image and you’ll get the pixles size rectangle you set up. You can move this rectangle around on your image till you get it where you want. Then, on the menu bar, go to Image>Crop and voila, you’ll have it.
Dick
You can do that with the crop tool as well. All you have to do is completely clear the dimension boxes, including the "in", and then for the width enter 640 px and for the height enter 480 px. Using that method, it is very easy to switch back and forth between inches and pixelsx.
Hi Dick and Jim,
WONDERFUL!!!! Dick, your explanation worked perfectly! I’ve been trying to do that for MONTHS!!!
Jim, using the crop tool and filling in the dimensions will result in a crop of desired size but I can’t get it to just give me the box I can move around to achieve the exact crop. I still have to click and drag a box which when i "OK" it will result in a picture of the dimensions I specified. Am I doing something wrong here?
Thanks,
Cameron
No, you are not doing anything wrong. Using the crop tool as I explained will force you to create your "box" in the correct proportions. Then, you can position that box anywhere you want on the picture. When you are satisfied with the results, whatever amount you have included in the crop will be made into a new image of the exact dimensions that you specify. So if you use most of your picture, or just a small segment of your picture, the result of the crop will be an image in the dimensions that you specify.
Hi Jim,
I understand. Thanks. That does make it easy to have a resulting picture of the exact size one wants. Now I have two ways of reaching a point that prior to today had totally eluded me.
I really appreciate your help.
Cameron
Jim,
thanks for posting your tip as well. I thought that could be done, but I’ve used the crop tool so little since I learned about the Marquee tool that I’d forgotten.
Dick
Dick,
I suppose it’s all a matter of what we get accustomed to working with. I have read the discussions about using the marquee tool for cropping, and I realize that some of you have discovered an advantage to doing it that way. But I have tried that method and have found no advantage to using it over using the regular crop tool.
Jim
Regarding the usage of the Crop tool vs. the Rectangular Marquee tool for cropping….
You should be aware that they are actually giving you different results, except in one very specific circumstance.
Say, for example, that you wish to crop a 100×200 pixel area.
– using the Rectangular Marquee tool in Fixed Size mode, as soon as you click on your image, a 100×200 selection border appears. You can drag this selection to position it before clicking Image > Crop. The result is a 100×200 section of your ORIGINAL pixels.
– using the Crop tool with the dimensions entered, you are required to drag out your selection. The selection is constrained to the proportion of 100:200. The selection area can be re-sized by dragging the corner handles. When the Crop is confirmed, the result is that the selected area is cropped, and then RESIZED to your specified dimensions, no matter how many original pixels were in your selection. So, if you had actually drawn a 150×300 crop (still correctly constrained proportion), the original pixels would be RESAMPLED down to 100×200. Likewise, a smaller selection of 75×150 would be resampled up to 100×200. In both of those cases, the ppi remains the same as the original… unless you enter a value in the Resolution field for the Crop tool — which has an additional influence on the resampling done by the tool.
The one instance when both tools will give you identical results is when you leave the Crop Resolution blank, and happen to drag out a selection that exactly matches the proportional dimensions you entered into the Width and Height fields.
FWIW, it can be helpful to have the Info palette displayed when drawing marquees or crop areas, as it shows dynamic selection dimensions.
I feel that both the Rectangular Marquee and Crop tool have usefulness for cropping, depending on your desired result. If you want to avoid resampling, use the Rect. Marquee, or use the Crop tool very precisely. If you desire, or do not care about, resampling, then the Crop tool is appropriate.
Thank you for that explanation, Bryon. That helps my understanding somewhat. However, I still have a question. If I use the crop tool and do not specify any dimensions, and leave the resolution blank, and freely crop my image, is the result of my crop still in the same resolution as my original image? If I check the image size it indicates that the resolution is still the same. So in that situation it is my understanding that I have just trimmed off "excess" pixels.
Jim,
In the case where you leave all of the Crop tool’s settings blank, no change is made to resolution, and no resampling is done.
For a "freehand" crop, this would seem to be another situation where the marquee and crop tool will give you identical results, given the same usage. Crop would have an advantage, IMO, because of the ability to manipulate the selection before confirmation.
My earlier write-up was centered on the differences between the two methods when a specific dimension is used in the tools.
Byron
Well explained, Byron.
This is the hidden "gotcha" of the crop tool, anytime a dimension or ppi is specified.
Mac
Correct.
If you don’t specify *anything* but just freely crop, you are just removing pixels. And it leaves the ppi setting the same as you started with, just a smaller physical output size.
Mac
But that "gotcha" could be referred to as a feature IF that is what you are trying to accomplish. I suppose that is why it pays to keep studying.
But that "gotcha" could be referred to as a feature IF that is what you are trying to accomplish.
True, but unlike using the Image Size dialogue, the math is impossible to figure with the Crop Tool. For example, set a new ppi and then start cropping different sized areas. No way to really figure how much you are Upsampling (which is the usual outcome, although in rare cases you might be Downsampling).
Mac
Jim,
Exactly!
In the case of someone who knows how the Crop tool’s options come into play, their intentional use has positive value.
I feel, however, that the effects of the tool’s options are under-emphasized, and consequently may provide unintended results, for someone unaware of the details.
Depending on the specific goal, pick the tool that gives the control you need. Sometimes one is more appropriate than the other.
Byron
OK, I have to ask this. Let’s say I take a five megapixel image that is 2500×1900 pixels (give or take) and, instead of using the crop tool or the marquee tool, I simply resize that image and specify that I want an the long side to be 10.5 inches. The results indicates the size is 8.1×10.5 (give or take if I have constrain proportions selected, but NO resample), and the resolution is 216 PPI. What have I done to my image?
Nothing, really,assuming you have Resample turned off.
You have the same number of pixels you started with.
Actually, though, you’re math is off somewhere (was just a rough estimate I guess?)
2500×1900 pixels = 10.5 x 7.98 inches @ 238.xxx ppi
Mac
Yes, it was just a rough estimate from memory. I’m sorry, but this is probably going to seem like a dumb question. If I have the same number of pixels, but the image size is now smaller because the original was 72 PPI, did the pixels compress, or what?
Jim,
You don’t state the original ppi, or whether you have Resample selected when you resize.
If you don’t Resample, then all you are not changing a single pixel in your image — merely embedding print instructions as to how many of the existing pixels should be printed in a linear inch on paper. As you change your document size values, you will see the resolution dynamically change as the existing pixels are allotted to the new number of inches.
Likewise, if you change resolution, you will see the document size change.
In either case, there are no new or discarded pixels, just a re-allottment of existing pixels within a new print dimension.
If you have Resample selected, then changing any of the values – Pixel Dimensions, Document Size, Resolution – causes pixels to be either discarded (down-sampled) or created (up-sampled).
Down- and up-sampling each have their own caveats and uses… another whole conversation!
Byron
OK, I will let this go. We were both writing at the same time. Original image from the camera is 72 PPI.. I do a resize image with no resampling. Then I get the results that I stated. If you don’t want to answer, that’s okay. I think I understand from your last post.
Jim,
OK… changing the document size without resampling just changes the number of pixels which are assigned to a linear inch of paper. With a lower ppi, it takes more paper to print all of the pixels… higher ppi takes less paper.
Byron
In answer to your previous question.
Regardless of the inch size/ppi of the image, as you change it around, you have the same number of total pixels. In the case of the 2500×1900 pixel image you have 4,750,000 of them.
And yes, the smaller the area they are constrained to, the smaller those pixels are.
IOW, at 300ppi they are much smaller than at 72ppi.
At 300ppi your output size is also much smaller than at 72ppi.
Mac
All right! I understand it now! Thank you both for your explanations. End of discussion, as far as I’m concerned.
I would just add that if (after you get your proper marquee) you do a Edit>Copy Merged and then File>New from Clipboard you get a new file of the size you want and your original with its layers is left intact.
Bob Warren
What a great interchange this thread has been. Thanks to Jim for the questions, and Byron and Mac for the explanations.
This thread will be saved!
Dick
and here ends the great interchange. Can I bring this thread right back down to base level. If I want to crop an image say a building in the middle of a photo. I slect the crop tool and crop around the building. I then have another image with a close up of the building.
Do I have to be thinking about what size prints I want to do when I do the crop and put that in the parameters? If the cropped area is kind of square does it get distorted if you specify 4×6 in the crop tool?
Tim,
You do need to think about the final size you want.
I think you will find a preference here for the rectangular marquee too changing it from normal to fixed aspect ratio so you can resize with the correct proportions when you want.
Pete
And that is precisely the situation where I would prefer to use the crop tool. I enter my dimensions as well as the resolution that I want the cropped picture to be so that I can get a decent print. Obviously, this is going to cause upsampling, but in a 4×6 print I have never noticed any problems.
Jim, with 4 by 6 prints, I’m thinking the only time you’d see a problem with your approach is if you started with a very low size photo (like a 640 by 480) and cropped out all but a small piece. Then you could have a lot of upsampling and a pretty marginal image. But if you’re doing minor cropping on the image coming out of a 3 or 4 megapixel camera, your approach is safe and simple.
I appreciate your input, Chuck. I guess I can get away with quite a bit because I use a five megapixel camera and I almost always have it set to the highest quality settings. I suppose if I were to go back and try some of my stunts with my two megapixel I probably wouldn’t be as happy with the results.
Jim, with 5 megapixels, you’re definitely not pixel-challenged! I’ve had a couple shots with my 4 MP camera where I did ‘digital zoom’ in Elements,
i.e., I made up for the fact that the camera is only 3:1 and cropped away
most of an image with a bird sitting in the center. I didn’t have many pixels left to play with, so it looks okay on the screen but the print…well….let’s just say it’s not going to appear in National Geographic any time soon..
🙂
I tried using both tools inputting 10cm in the height of the crop tool and dragging a rectangle round the area I wanted resulted in just having a dot left on the screen?
Using the Marquee tool inputting 10cm and changing the number of pixels to change the size of the boxes to me resulted in an unsatisfactory image in that I think I would prefer to use the crop to specify exactly what area I would like to see then suffer some up sampling, but for some reason I can’t see to get anything but a dot after cropping. Help!!!!
Tim,
My thought is that your "dot" is actually your 10x10cm selection.
A very low resolution, or a very large image zoomed out to fit on the screen, can make a smallish selection appear miniscule.
Byron
Tim, that was my impression as well. There are quite a few people who seem to feel that the crop tool should be avoided at all costs. I am not one of them, because I use that tool quite often when it suits my needs. The main thing you have to remember is how the crop tool behaves. If you specify a resolution along with your size, there is going to be resampling. But if you know that, and are prepared for it, then use the crop tool if you get better results.
Thanks. Yes for some reason had a very low resolution selected. Once I cleared that out everything returned to normal.
Bert Bigelow "How Does One Pre-Size & Crop?" 1/26/04 9:39pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/35>
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but there is another thread on this same subject at the link above. The final posts kind of sum up the conclusions there…which pretty much agree with what y’all concluded here, but if you want another take on it…
Bert
Nice tip Dick – It worked perfectly. I chose the rectangluar marquee tool, then clicked on Fixed Size on the Style field, then entered my dimensions Width 800 px Height 600 px, then just clicked on the picture and the box appeared to my desired dimensions. All I did after that was move the box on to the subject area I wanted and now I have just what I needed. Thanks
Robert
