Adobe Elements (at least the version that came with my EOS 10D), does not come with the Adobe Gamma Utility.
Bill Crocker
wrote in message
Brian,
My guess is that it will help to run the Adobe Gamma Utility. You might
look at the tutorial at
<
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7-colour/ps7_2.htm> for inspiration <G> .. Since Elements is a color managed application and displays every image based upon working colorspace and monitor profile, re-calibrating using Adobe Gamma would be my first choice. There aren’t many color managed apps out there.
Ian Lyons Image Flow
<
http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.lyons/ps7-colour/ps7_color.gi f>
🙂
Brent
Brent,
Thanks for the assistance. I used Adobe Gamma Utility, but it actually washed out the photos when I used it as it described. Now just so anyone who is reading this knows, I also decided (after Brent’s message) to look at past prints compared with what I was viewing on screen. I have printed off of my printer (HP Photosmart 1100) and using the Fuji Frontier. Without question, the photos as seen under Qimage or the Picture Viewer Application appear almost identical to printed images. However, in Elements is when I get the darker, more saturated images. HOWEVER, it is only with images I have downloaded to the computer in the last week or so. Previously saved imaged are unaffected. Bizarre or what? So if I adjust the monitor, then while my PS images might be okay, the rest of the images would not. I am in PS frequently and to adjust and re-adjust would really be a pain. I am sure the answer is out there somewhere, but I don’t know what it is.
Other ideas?
What are the pictures being downloaded from? Any changes at the source of the pictures? What are your color management settings in Elements?
—
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
Brent,
images. HOWEVER, it is only with images I have downloaded to the computer in the last week or so.
James, thanks for responding. Photos are being downloaded from my camera, a Canon Pro90. I have not changed anything there. I am not at my home computer but will look at the color management settings in Elements tonight. While we are on that topic, is it possible to change the settings within PSE to just affect photos from a certain point forward? I have looked at my photos from a few weeks ago and beyond, and they look just fine. They look just like the photos when I display them in Qimage and the Picture Viewer Application. Again, the ones that are appearing darker and much more saturated now appear fine in Qimage and Picture Viewer Application. To me that is saying the "problem" is definitely within PSE, but I am willing to stand corrected for the answer to correct this.
To anyone who can help,
Okay, I checked the color management. On the darker and more saturated photos it was being managed the same as the photos that were not changed.
To perhaps complicate this a little more, a photo that I saved some time ago, but opened the other day (I had saved as a TIFF and was working from the TIFF file) to print from Qimage now appears darker and more saturated, yet the original JPEG appears just as it always has ("normal"). I did not make any changes to it in PSE or Qimage, just printed it. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense since it printed up just fine, and still prints up fine. The other photos that are appearing darker/more saturated were not opened originally in Qimage.
And what perhaps continue to add to this is that I still have PS 5.0 LE installed on my computer. When I open the images in 5.0, everything appears normal. And when I save them as a new file in 5.0, they appear "normal" when I go back and open them in PSE 2.0. It is a work around, but I hope someone out there has an answer to this.
I did try a total uninstall of PSE, rebooted, then re-installed PSE again. No difference whatsoever.
Brian
When you did your uninstall, did you do a separate search for the Elements Preference folder and delete it manually? If you didn’t, the old one is still on your computer and active. Normally I wouldn’t associate the problem you’re having with corrupt preferences, but at this point you have nothing to lose. If you didn’t do that, here are the instructions:
With Elements closed, click on the start up icon and then make a QUICK grab for the Control, Alt, and Shift keys. Hold all three down simultaneously until you get a screen asking if you want to delete Settings. Say Yes. A new folder will build as PSE continues to launch.
I don’t hold out a lot of hope for this, but it’s so simple it’s worth a try.
Brian,
Are you working in Full Color Management mode in Elements ? I know the HP printer would prefer to have you working in Limited color management ( sRGB colorspace ) . The Full Color Management uses AdobeRGB space which is definitely richer in color.
Still I can’t explain why you would have a change in your image appearance without making any changes in your settings, unless somehow your canned profiles have become corrupted. You could try downloading the profiles and installing them to see if THAT has happened. <
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=6 2&platform=Windows> .
From HP site on 1115 printer, "An incorrect color management file (.ICM) that causes the displayed color to be different than the printed color may be installed. HP Photosmart Color Inkjet Printers only support sRGB.ICM. That is, if any other color management is used, it may cause the printer to use colors other than those displayed. To correct this, or to troubleshoot, follow the steps below: "
🙁
Brent
Beth,
Thank you for the advise. I did try that previously and it did not change anything. After I did the uninstall, I also went in and deleted any PSE folders (there were several things that it would not uninstall). There were no PSE items left. Then I rebooted. But I do appreciate your chiming in on this.
Brent,
Since I had never had problems opening from one application to another, I had always left it on the default, which was no color management. Thank you for that link. I am going on a quick business trip to Seattle (the worst part is no time to take photos!), but will try that link when I get back on the weekend. I will report my progress here, just in case someone has this problem in the future. I think you are on the right track though (theory only on my part). Out of curiosity I did try changing the color management. I did it while I had a too dark/overly saturated photo and a "normal" photo on screen simultaneously. Interestingly, to me at least, is that when I clicked on the limited or full color management options, the too dark photo did not change at all but the "normal" photo now appeared similar to the too dark one.
One possibility: what happens when you change the colour mangement sounds as though some of your more recent images have accidentally been tagged with an incorrect colour profile somehow…so when you change your colour mangement the too dark tagged image doesn’t change, but the untagged image changes to reflect the new working colour space (sRGB with partial colour management, Adobe RGB with full colour mangement).
Susan,
I believe you are right on target (again my theory only), the question is how to correct this? I am trying Brent’s suggested link now.
To untag an image – open it up, use the save as dialog and uncheck the "embed color profile" box then save as….if the image is tagged with a profile already that box should show up as checked. If it isn’t checked then the image doesn’t have a profile attached and we’ve blown that theory out of the water….
The other possibility is that the EXIF data labelling the images as sRGB is present for some files but not for others. PE2 recogises this data and treats the images as sRGB even if they aren’t. This would also give the same result for your changing colour mangement experiment – earlier versions of PE and PS do not recognise this EXIF data … So if something you have done has left EXIF data in place on some images but not on others (could be a different camera, a different method of importing the image, different RAW conversion utility) this could also explain the difference. You need to install Adobe’s ignoreEXIF utility to fix this problem (downloadable somewhere from this site)
Susan,
Thank you very much for this info. I am leaving this afternoon for an out of town business trip and will not have access to my home computer. I will come back on Friday and check out your suggestions and let you know here what has occurred.
For what it is worth category, it is the same camera, same method of importing the image, and don’t use RAW with this camera.
I also downloaded the profiles from the link Brent provided. However, there was no RGB folder or CMYK Folders. The files were there, but and I highlighted them, but there was not a "install profile" option. I am running Win 2000, WinZip 8. Did not have a whole lot of time to play around with it.
Brian
Brian on my xp system ICC Profiles go in: C>Windows>System 32>Spool>Drivers>Color.
—
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
I also downloaded the profiles from the link Brent provided. However,
there was no RGB folder or CMYK Folders. The files were there, but and I highlighted them, but there was not a "install profile" option. I am running Win 2000, WinZip 8. Did not have a whole lot of time to play around with it.
Brian
Thanks James. I am back from my trip now and will look at the various options which have been presented here and will report back just so there is a record.
Okay all,
Thanks to Susan I have located the problem, which brings a new problem. Each photo that is too dark is tagged with a color profile (sRGB 61966-2.1) and each "normal" file is untagged. The problem is that I did try as Susan suggested, opened up the too dark file, uncheck the color profile box, then saved (I tried saving as JPEG and TIFF, and created a "new" too dark file and saved over it). The photo was unchanged in color. As long as the photo is still open and I click on "save as", the color profile remains unchecked, even though it is still too dark (did not change the color whatsoever). When I close the window and open it back up (the photo that I unchecked the color profile box in), it now shows with the box checked to the same color profile even though I unchecked it. So it would seem that somehow I set the default to save with the profile, this particular profile. I have looked in preferences, tried the alt-control-shift trick to reset the preferences, nothing is in the preferences to help this and the other reset trick did not make a difference. Any ideas now? I have looked in "help" within PSE and could not find anything on this.
Any ideas anyone based on my last message?
Brian ,
If you are working on an uncalibrated display, without an accurate profile, its hard to give a recommendation. Elements has to be on an accurately profiled monitor to effectively view an image. <
http://www.normankoren.com/Color_mgmt_flow_Sachs.gif> .
If you have a calibrated display, and you open an untagged image, you should be able to change your color preferences between the 3 choices and see 3 different interpretations of the image .
1) Untagged
2) sRGB -limited color management
3) AdobeRGB – full color management
Have you tried the IgnoreExif utility ? Frequently using the EXIF color info in an image can mess up your color rendering. I’d download that and try it both ways.
🙂
Brent
Brent (and anyone else),
I did download the IgnoreExif utility. Nothing (no difference). The problem is not with the monitor. I have gone over it numerous times experimenting with this and that. Remember, the images just started appearing this way since about three weeks ago. Perhaps I did not explain this as well as I could have but if I have an "old" (read pre-three weeks ago) image up and a "new" one up not only do they look different, but they have different profiles attached. I can see which profiles are attached, but cannot seem to be able to change it. I also have Qimage and in there I have found how to attach a different profile, yet for these newer images it will not attach. To answer your specific question, when I change the color preferences you metnion, my old photos change, but the news ones remain the same no matter which I choose.
Therefore, the problem seems confined to PSE. Remember also, when I open the "new" files in PS 5.0 LE the files look perfectly fine. (No camera change.) Also, if I save the "new" photo as a TIFF in PS 5.0 LE, then it looks perfectly fine in PSE. Pretty strange.
I appreciate everyone’s input. If anyone ever has any other ideas, or if Adobe personnel ever read this, realize that somehow there is a way to change the default color profile (I assuming I accidentally happened to hit the right shortcut keys, unless it did it all by itself, which does happen with other software when it tries to "think" for you) but there does not seem to be a readily available option to correct it (even when restoring defaults).
So the only solution I have is to open everything in PS 5.0 LE first, save as TIFF, then use PSE (I really like the extra options in PSE). I save everything as TIFF anyway, so it could be worse in my work around.
Brian
Brian,
What’s frustrating is that Elements is the only color managed application you’re working with, which leads us to "color management" type solutions. Can you send me a good image and a bad image by email, so I can look at them with Photoshop ?
🙂
Brent
Brent I’m pretty sure QImage is color managed as well. Please correct me if I am wrong. I try to follow all of the threads dealing with color management hoping to gain some of your insight. It certainly seems to be an ongoing issue.
—
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
Brian,
What’s frustrating is that Elements is the only color managed
application you’re working with, > 🙂
Brent
Jim,
I don’t know how managed the display is, exactly, on Qimage . You can select the monitor profile, output profiles, etc , but I’m not sure that the onscreen preview is filtered through the monitor profile like Photoshop and Elements. That’s just ignorance on my part , of Qimage. I own Qimage, but I tend to use it for "batch printing", rather than single photos that I want to be "just right". Consequently, I can’t speak as a heavy user of Qimage Pro.
I do recommend it , though, just as I recommend Irfanview and Vuescan . All are fine , well done applications that have some real strong points. I’d hate to be stuck with only one application to do anything. Reminds me of the 80’s when Lotus came out with "Symphony " office suite. Yuck, what a lemon !
🙂
Brent
Brent
I defer to your expertise in this area, I am a greenhorn with color management as you know. The following quote from their site led me to believe it was fully color managed. Any light you can shed on this is greatly appreciated. As I have told you before, most of the discussions on the color management forum go right over my head. LOL Thanks for you patience with me Brent.
"About embedded profiles: Qimage currently supports embedded profiles in JPEG/TIFF images. Images modified in high end photo editors will be saved with the editing space (profile) saved in the image, if that image was saved as a JPEG/TIFF file. Qimage will now automatically recognize and use the embedded profile in the image. Note that you will need to have Monitor ICC and Printer ICC turned on for Qimage to be able to properly utilize the embedded profile when viewing/printing. Note that if a profile is embedded in an image, the input table under "Color Management" is ignored and the embedded profile is used instead."
—
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
Jim,
I don’t know how managed the display is, exactly, on Qimage . >
Brent
Brent,
It is definitely color management (definitely being relative ; ) ). I will send two photos to you via the e-mail that is in your profile. When you get them, look at the associated color profile. One reads sRGB… (I put the exact number in an earlier response, am not at home right now) and the other reads the one that goes with my monitor (this one has always worked well, and the output is near perfect when printed). If you want it to a different e-mail, let me know at It may be a day or two.
Thanks
Brian
Brent,
I just e-mailed them to you using the address in your profile here. Let me know if you receive them.
Thanks
Brian
I suddenly have the same problem. PSE worked fine a few days ago and now all photos are too dark. I noticed last night that when photos are "Saved for the Web", they appear OK in that area of PSE.
I suspect a recent automatic update is causing this problem but how can I contact Adobe to have this problem reversed? My PSE is useless now.
Did that it did not fix it.
Hi Brent,
I never did receive them. Though what I am about to post proves my solution, I would still be very interested in hearing your conclusions. I will privately e-mail a different e-mail address since those files may be too big for little ol’ hotmail.
Brian
Okay folks, I accidentally discovered the problem and how to fix it. Now mind you, this is a working theory, but being the timing of it all, it has to be. Sorry for the length, but for anybody’s future reference I wanted this to be here.
Well, a few weeks ago I went into Qimage to create a custom size for something I was having printed up. Not knowing much about Qimage (I use it only for printing/upsizing) all I did was change the size under the box where it reads "custom" (lower right side on my screen) I did not touch the ICC profiles at all. However, I started to have problems with printing. It would not print the whole photo. It would seperate it into fours on one 8X10 (any size really), and print part of the same photo, of the same area on each of the four sections. I was bewildered. Fiddled with it for several weeks, never doing much because I do not print much. Well, yesterday my 12 year old daughter wanted me to scan, then print some photos for a Mother’s Day gift (BTW, happy belated Mother’s Day to all you mothers out there). It was time to fix the problem. Still could not figure it out, so if you go under help (in Qimage) you can click on something there to reset all parameters (properties) to how Qimage was when you first installed. Potential problem is that you lose any custom properties you have set, something I wanted to do for the size thing. I clicked on that, and could now print.
Now the exciting part is that I have been working on my daughter’s bridal photos just recently, and I scanned my other daughter’s photos whilst I was working on the bridal photos. Well, my daughter that is getting married was visiting for Mother’s Day and so I was showing them to her. I started showing her the before and after just so she could see and appreciate what has been done. Now for you who have been following this saga, you may remember that I have previously saved them in PS 5.0 LE as TIFF so they would be "normal." I started opening the "befores" and showing them to her. About half way through I realized I had the JPEG’s opened that were previously "too dark." At first I thought I was a little crazy, so I looked through them. Sure enough they were normal. A couple of TIFF files that I had printed in Qimage, and they were "older" files, were also darker (which had me really confused). PSE will now let me uncheck the profile box under "save as". At first it still looks too dark. But when you close it and re-open it appears normal, and best of all, the original profile is now attached.
I had done all the above before (relating only to PSE), and nothing worked.
So, in the end, it would appear that the problem was with Qimage. When I created the custom size, I unknowingly (it may be the default) attached the other ICC profile which affected image visualization in PSE. Interestingly thing though, it is a "conflict" between PSE and Qimage, as PS 5.0 LE never had a problem displaying the photos correctly. It also only affected all photos from the time I created that custom size, and any photos I printed which were "older" photos. Sounds strange to me, but it is how it all worked out. For me, a great day. 🙂 😀
Next to getting my PSE back "as good as new," is that before this I never really came here. I have had a look around on the various subjects and am glad I had this problem to discover the many talented minds around here.
Thanks to all who have help.
Brian
Brian,
That sounds like a very feasible explanation. Qimage has a checkbox to imbed profiles, and its possible it was imbedding the wrong profile, or a corrupt profile. Good detective work ( and lucky, too, wouldn’t want to discount the value of luck <G> ) .
🙂
Brent
PS5LE is not color managed, which explains why you didn’t have a problem with that one. Also there have been no updates to Elements 2.
Rich
Brent,
Definitely luck! I didn’t change it intentionally to embed the profile so I guess it is only fitting that I unintentionally corrected it. 🙂
Rich,
I actually had totally forgot about that, so thanks for the reminder.
