Web Authoring SW Suggestion

R
Posted By
RicSeyler
Jul 12, 2004
Views
1472
Replies
24
Status
Closed
I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
A customer at my print shop wants a web site and has mentioned they will buy all the necessary software in exchange for doing the site.. And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with. The last web work I did was in 1997, with early Hot Metal Pro.

The only criteria is I HATE MicroSoft "style" programs, i.e. Publisher, Word, etc. I have the MS Publisher Service Bureau Edition for my print shop and can’t figure out how to do the simplest things LOLOL. (of course I never cracked the damn manual, but nothing is intuitive) And I don’t remember any manual HTML coding to speak of…

I’ve been a PhotoShop, CorelDraw, PageMaker guy since 1993..

How about the Dreamweaver/Fireworks and maybe Flash package?? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Here’s an old ass web page I did, that now has broken links (had to spread it over
different accounts that are now gone) And yes it looks very dated 😉 And I had to manually publish all the files (the software still had problems with the early versions)

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

What should I go for? WYSWYG would be nice.

—
Ric Seyler
Seyler Design & Printing
Pensacola, Florida
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V
Voivod
Jul 12, 2004
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:44:11 -0500, RicSeyler
scribbled:

What should I go for?

Notepad.
T
toosano
Jul 12, 2004
Hey Ric.
Just ignore VoidVoid and his ilk, he’s one of this newsgroups resident angryboys. It’s been that way since they put a puter online in his section of the mental ward.
Man, looks like you had it tough in those hurricane’s.
Dreamweaver may be your best bet, since you don’t seem to like MS type stuff. It’s a lot more visual if you want to go that way. FrontPage is a pretty easy "what you see, is what you get" program. The cool thing about FP is that there are just a ton of ad-ins for it now. However, most of the hardcore websters, seem to look down on it. One thing about FP is that even people with old systems can access it easy.
TB

"RicSeyler" wrote in message
I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
A customer at my print shop wants a web site and has mentioned they will buy all the necessary software in exchange for doing the site.. And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with. The last web work I did was in 1997, with early Hot Metal Pro.
The only criteria is I HATE MicroSoft "style" programs, i.e. Publisher, Word, etc. I have the MS Publisher Service Bureau Edition for my print shop and can’t figure out how to do the simplest things LOLOL. (of course I never cracked the damn manual, but nothing is intuitive) And I don’t remember any manual HTML coding to speak of…
I’ve been a PhotoShop, CorelDraw, PageMaker guy since 1993..
How about the Dreamweaver/Fireworks and maybe Flash package?? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Here’s an old ass web page I did, that now has broken links (had to spread it over
different accounts that are now gone) And yes it looks very dated 😉 And I had to manually publish all the files (the software still had
problems
with the early versions)

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

What should I go for? WYSWYG would be nice.

—
Ric Seyler
Seyler Design & Printing
Pensacola, Florida
TT
Tom Thomas
Jul 12, 2004
RicSeyler wrote:

I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
A customer at my print shop wants a web site and has mentioned they will buy all the necessary software in exchange for doing the site.. And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with. The last web work I did was in 1997, with early Hot Metal Pro.
-snip –
I’ve been a PhotoShop, CorelDraw, PageMaker guy since 1993..

If you like the "typical" Adobe user interface then you might want to give GoLive a try. There’s a free trial at the Adobe site. They also have the PageMaker version of the InDesign upgrade. Everyone has his or her own preference but Adobe has, in my opinion finally arrived at a pretty workable package of complimentary applications. If you can manage the jump from Corel to Illustrator, the CS Suite might be something for you to look into; particularly if the client wants to pay for it! 😉
——————————-
Tom

Unsolicited advertisements cheerfully ignored.
J
Jim
Jul 12, 2004
"RicSeyler" wrote in message
I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
I don’t do web page designs for profit.

Netscape came with a web page creation program. The price certainly was nice.

I used FrontPage 98, but I finally grew to loathe it. It seemed to create over cooked pages.

Nowadays, when I want to create something, I just use Notepad and a browser. You do have to know about those simplistic HTML tags though.

Really though, HTML is easy to understand compared to real computer languages (Fortran, Basic, C, C++, and assembler for instance).

Jim
R
RicSeyler
Jul 12, 2004
LOLOL Smart Ass!!
Like I didn’t see that coming………. 😉

Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:44:11 -0500, RicSeyler
scribbled:

What should I go for?

Notepad.

—
Ric Seyler

—
V
Voivod
Jul 12, 2004
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:14:31 -0400, "watashee" scribbled:

The cool thing about FP

There’s nothing cool about Front Page, it’s absolute crap that produces some of the worst HTML code ever seen. That you’d advocate it is a sure sign you don’t have a fucking clue.
R
RicSeyler
Jul 12, 2004
Well give me some suggestions then, ya Sour Puss!! LOL

Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:14:31 -0400, "watashee" scribbled:

The cool thing about FP

There’s nothing cool about Front Page, it’s absolute crap that produces some of the worst HTML code ever seen. That you’d advocate it is a sure sign you don’t have a fucking clue.

—
Ric Seyler

—
V
Voivod
Jul 12, 2004
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:17:24 -0500, RicSeyler
scribbled:

Well give me some suggestions then, ya Sour Puss!! LOL

I did, you need nothing more than Notepad to create HTML. I don’t use crutches so I can’t recommend anything else.

Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:14:31 -0400, "watashee" scribbled:

The cool thing about FP

There’s nothing cool about Front Page, it’s absolute crap that produces some of the worst HTML code ever seen. That you’d advocate it is a sure sign you don’t have a fucking clue.

R
RicSeyler
Jul 12, 2004


Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:17:24 -0500, RicSeyler
scribbled:

Well give me some suggestions then, ya Sour Puss!! LOL

I did, you need nothing more than Notepad to create HTML. I don’t use crutches so I can’t recommend anything else.
Gotcha……….
But I need to create pages someone might enjoy looking at and get some use out of. LOL
But hey, why use penicillin when there are still leeches around. 🙂

Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:14:31 -0400, "watashee" scribbled:

The cool thing about FP
There’s nothing cool about Front Page, it’s absolute crap that produces some of the worst HTML code ever seen. That you’d advocate it is a sure sign you don’t have a fucking clue.

—
Ric Seyler

—
J
Jim
Jul 12, 2004
"MArtin Chiselwitt" wrote in message
have you tried Homesite?
No. Notepad and IE suffice for my needs. I did buy a book which explains the various tags, etc. You won’t get far without such a book. Jim
C
Canopus
Jul 12, 2004
quite right! And if you want write on paper – use feather and black stuff, to make fire – bang rocks together, to catch fish – use sharp stick (grunt)…

"Voivod" wrote in message
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:17:24 -0500, RicSeyler
scribbled:

Well give me some suggestions then, ya Sour Puss!! LOL

I did, you need nothing more than Notepad to create HTML. I don’t use crutches so I can’t recommend anything else.
Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 12:14:31 -0400, "watashee" scribbled:

The cool thing about FP

There’s nothing cool about Front Page, it’s absolute crap that produces some of the worst HTML code ever seen. That you’d advocate it is a sure sign you don’t have a fucking clue.
L
Larry
Jul 12, 2004
have you tried Homesite?

Jim wrote:

"RicSeyler" wrote in message

I have the opportunity to get back into web design.

I don’t do web page designs for profit.

Netscape came with a web page creation program. The price certainly was nice.

I used FrontPage 98, but I finally grew to loathe it. It seemed to create over cooked pages.

Nowadays, when I want to create something, I just use Notepad and a browser. You do have to know about those simplistic HTML tags though.
Really though, HTML is easy to understand compared to real computer languages (Fortran, Basic, C, C++, and assembler for instance).
Jim

L
Larry
Jul 12, 2004
Jim wrote:
"MArtin Chiselwitt" wrote in message

have you tried Homesite?

No. Notepad and IE suffice for my needs. I did buy a book which explains the various tags, etc. You won’t get far without such a book. Jim

Sorry JIm. I was attemtping to respond to the original post-er

🙂
JA
John Anderson
Jul 12, 2004
G’day,

RicSeyler wrote:
And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with.

HTML-Kit from http://www.chami.com/ is free, powerful and *not* WYSWYG. Test in IE because of its dominance among web users but don’t use it for your own browsing (Mozilla/Firefox).

Learn how to use CSS for your design, see Zen Garden:
http://www.csszengarden.com/

Be aware of WAI guidelines and incorporate them:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ especially the current standards: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ and the draft ones:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/

What should I go for? WYSWYG would be nice.

In general WYSWYG editors try to transfer print design methods onto the web using tight layouts rather than the loose ones good web design requires.

regards,

John
BW
Bruce Wallace
Jul 12, 2004
Ric
Would have to agree with the few here, notepad, or HTML Kit. Wombatwal

"John Anderson" wrote in message
G’day,

RicSeyler wrote:
And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with.

HTML-Kit from http://www.chami.com/ is free, powerful and *not* WYSWYG. Test in IE because of its dominance among web users but don’t use it for your own browsing (Mozilla/Firefox).

Learn how to use CSS for your design, see Zen Garden:
http://www.csszengarden.com/

Be aware of WAI guidelines and incorporate them:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ especially the current standards: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ and the draft ones:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/

What should I go for? WYSWYG would be nice.

In general WYSWYG editors try to transfer print design methods onto the web using tight layouts rather than the loose ones good web design
requires.
regards,

John
H
Hecate
Jul 13, 2004
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:44:11 -0500, RicSeyler
wrote:

I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
A customer at my print shop wants a web site and has mentioned they will buy all the necessary software in exchange for doing the site.. And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with. The last web work I did was in 1997, with early Hot Metal Pro.
Dreamweaver/Fireworks is the best combination. if you want something a bit cheaper, take a look at NetObjects Fusion. But, really, if someone else is paying *and* you;re doing it for a living (or part of) get DW. There’s nothing else as good. Avoid GoLive, which even at the CS version is still broken (I got it as part of the CS suite and I do use it – I create documents in InDesign and then use the new feature which allows you to turn them into HTML pages in GoLive. Then I save the page and import them into Dreamweaver <g>. At last there’s finally a use for GoLive <g>). If you’re going to use ASP/JSP/Cold Fusion, then there really isn’t anything else suitable than DW. Above and beyond that you’re into Visual Studio.Net.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui
JD
John Doe
Jul 13, 2004
FrontPage does create bad code, you can use it but then have to fix a lot of the mess manually. GoLive (Adobe) is an option but doesn’t have nearly the amount of third party support (books, free tutorials, extensions, etc.) that Dreamweaver has. My recommendation is to get Dreamweaver MX 2004, install the patch for it and then pick yourself up a copy of the Dreamweaver MX 2004 Bible.

Dreamweaver gives you best of both worlds. It is great for visual design and when the time comes and it will some hand tweaking of the code. Some web sites with interesting extensions and tutorials are
http://www.projectseven.com (the best menuing extensions on the planet) and http://www.kaosweaver.com.

John
SI
stupid_idiot
Jul 13, 2004
www.netobjects.com

"RicSeyler" wrote in message
I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
A customer at my print shop wants a web site and has mentioned they will buy all the necessary software in exchange for doing the site.. And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with. The last web work I did was in 1997, with early Hot Metal Pro.
The only criteria is I HATE MicroSoft "style" programs, i.e. Publisher, Word, etc. I have the MS Publisher Service Bureau Edition for my print shop and can’t figure out how to do the simplest things LOLOL. (of course I never cracked the damn manual, but nothing is intuitive) And I don’t remember any manual HTML coding to speak of…
I’ve been a PhotoShop, CorelDraw, PageMaker guy since 1993..
How about the Dreamweaver/Fireworks and maybe Flash package?? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Here’s an old ass web page I did, that now has broken links (had to spread it over
different accounts that are now gone) And yes it looks very dated 😉 And I had to manually publish all the files (the software still had problems with the early versions)

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

What should I go for? WYSWYG would be nice.

—
Ric Seyler
Seyler Design & Printing
Pensacola, Florida
PW
Pjotr Wedersteers
Jul 13, 2004
Hecate wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:44:11 -0500, RicSeyler
wrote:

I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
A customer at my print shop wants a web site and has mentioned they will buy all the necessary software in exchange for doing the site.. And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with. The last web work I did was in 1997, with early Hot Metal Pro.
Dreamweaver/Fireworks is the best combination. if you want something a bit cheaper, take a look at NetObjects Fusion. But, really, if someone else is paying *and* you;re doing it for a living (or part of) get DW. There’s nothing else as good. Avoid GoLive, which even at the CS version is still broken (I got it as part of the CS suite and I do

Well I don’t know what parts are broken according to you, but I have very pleasant experiences with GoLive! Admitted, it has some of the typical Adobe quirks but it serves me well. I am not sure I like CS better than 6 yet though. I tried Dreamweaver but found it much more cumbersome compared to GoLive!.

A nice free one is NVU available here: http://nvu.com/download.html Looked quite promising. But since money is not your object…
I sometimes work in Notepad-like for straightforward quick & small stuff, but it hardly makes a nice environment and you miss out on all the good things advanced editors have to offer such as color coding et cetera, let alone the ease of drag&drop design. Just be aware the WYSIWYG produced code often needs some cleaning up afterwards.

I second the idea of using CSS as well. I gave up the frames approach for most work and stick to tables and CSS formatting now.
HTH
Pjotr
R
RicSeyler
Jul 13, 2004
Thanks so much for the info on DW and about the DW bible!! It looks like the DW Suite 2004 is what I’m going with.

John Doe wrote:

FrontPage does create bad code, you can use it but then have to fix a lot of the mess manually. GoLive (Adobe) is an option but doesn’t have nearly the amount of third party support (books, free tutorials, extensions, etc.) that Dreamweaver has. My recommendation is to get Dreamweaver MX 2004, install the patch for it and then pick yourself up a copy of the Dreamweaver MX 2004 Bible.

Dreamweaver gives you best of both worlds. It is great for visual design and when the time comes and it will some hand tweaking of the code. Some web sites with interesting extensions and tutorials are
http://www.projectseven.com (the best menuing extensions on the planet) and http://www.kaosweaver.com.

John

—
Ric Seyler
R
RicSeyler
Jul 13, 2004
Thanks to everyone who responded! The info really helped.

RicSeyler wrote:

I have the opportunity to get back into web design.
A customer at my print shop wants a web site and has mentioned they will buy all the necessary software in exchange for doing the site.. And I was wondering what is the recommended software package to go with. The last web work I did was in 1997, with early Hot Metal Pro.

The only criteria is I HATE MicroSoft "style" programs, i.e. Publisher, Word, etc. I have the MS Publisher Service Bureau Edition for my print shop and can’t figure out how to do the simplest things LOLOL. (of course I never cracked the damn manual, but nothing is intuitive) And I don’t remember any manual HTML coding to speak of…
I’ve been a PhotoShop, CorelDraw, PageMaker guy since 1993..
How about the Dreamweaver/Fireworks and maybe Flash package?? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Here’s an old ass web page I did, that now has broken links (had to spread it over
different accounts that are now gone) And yes it looks very dated 😉 And I had to manually publish all the files (the software still had problems
with the early versions)

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler

What should I go for? WYSWYG would be nice.

—
Ric Seyler
JD
John Doe
Jul 13, 2004
You won’t be sorry. It takes a little learning but it something that will grow with you as you learn. All the free tutorials and extensions can make a very big difference in the learning curve.

John
H
Hecate
Jul 14, 2004
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:21:24 +0200, "Pjotr Wedersteers" wrote:

Dreamweaver/Fireworks is the best combination. if you want something a bit cheaper, take a look at NetObjects Fusion. But, really, if someone else is paying *and* you;re doing it for a living (or part of) get DW. There’s nothing else as good. Avoid GoLive, which even at the CS version is still broken (I got it as part of the CS suite and I do

Well I don’t know what parts are broken according to you, but I have very pleasant experiences with GoLive! Admitted, it has some of the typical Adobe quirks but it serves me well. I am not sure I like CS better than 6 yet though. I tried Dreamweaver but found it much more cumbersome compared to GoLive!.

I’ve used GoLive, Fusion, Dreamweaver (I once had to use Frontpage blech!) and the only one of those that does everything correctly and at a professional level is DW. GoLive is slow and writes code which doesn’t adhere to all the standards. It hasn’t the flexibility of DW, doesn’t cope with ASP or anything sensible, and mangles any code you write yourself. Apart from that it’s fine. 🙂

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui
R
Roberto
Jul 14, 2004
Dreamweaver is the way to go… everything else pales in comparison.

JD

I’ve used GoLive, Fusion, Dreamweaver (I once had to use Frontpage blech!) and the only one of those that does everything correctly and at a professional level is DW. GoLive is slow and writes code which doesn’t adhere to all the standards. It hasn’t the flexibility of DW, doesn’t cope with ASP or anything sensible, and mangles any code you write yourself. Apart from that it’s fine. 🙂

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

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