What determines size of a JPG ?

MR
Posted By
Mike Russell
Feb 22, 2008
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501
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11
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Closed
"allenc" wrote in message
I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG’s of Monet artwork. In a graphics program if I view ‘image information’ it says they are 2600 X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated from a smaller image?

This is an interesting question. If you are seeing pixellated data, that may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg artifacting. Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes color and brightness values.

I would do this by making several duplicates of the image in Photoshop, resizing each one down by an increasing amount, and then resizing back again. Then go compare the images and see at what point you can tell the difference. This is a subjective judgment. Sharpening or other manipulations may have been applied to the image, and you are really looking for meaningful data, such as canvas and paint texture, brush marks, etc.

For example, create 3 copies, resize the them to 66, 50, and 25 percent of the original. Then resize them again to match the original size. To make comparing easier, create a new image and drag the layers from the original, and the three copies to that image. Then click on the "eye-cons" in the layer palette to hide and show individual layers for comparison with the original. Add noise and/or sharpen with unsharp mask to see if you can match one of the resized images to the original.

None of this constitutes proof that there was any deception involved, but it will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels. For example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of effective resolution.

Mike Russell – www.curvemeister.com

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MR
Mike Russell
Feb 22, 2008
"allenc" wrote in message
news:ea3e6f9f-0a5f-4ed4-8d10-
Hi – I actually use Paint Shop Pro graphics program and I am not sophisticated enough to do all the layer comparison you speak about. I was hoping there was just a simple way to tell if these were truly 300 dpi at that pixel size.

The layer comparison is not important – I imagine PSP does the same thing, perhaps using ctrl Tab to toggle between images.

will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels. For
example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of effective resolution.

What is the 9mp you mention ? Where did you get that number ? Is that what the size of the JPG should be for this size image?

It’s the number of pixels in the image.

What about if i save these as TIF, is there anyway to tell if they are smaller images that have been artificailly enlarged?

TIFF is another file format that contains the same image data, only uncompressed. JPG files are substantially smaller because they use a rather clever compression algorithm.

To answer your original question directly, there is no automatic way to check for the original size of an image after it has been resized. More than likely, there has been no deliberate deception. Museums generally have their paintings photographed for record keeping purposes. They then make money by selling dupes of the slides at the gift shop. More than likely you purchased digitized versions of the duplicated slides, and the quality is somewhat lacking. I’ve seen museum slides that were actually printed with ink, so consider yourself fortunate 🙂

On the plus side, now that you have the images in PSP, you can sharpen them and improve the colors.

Mike Russell – www.curvemeister.com
A
allenc
Feb 22, 2008
I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG’s of Monet artwork. In a graphics program if I view ‘image information’ it says they are 2600 X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated from a smaller image?

Thanks,

Allen
A
allenc
Feb 22, 2008
On Feb 21, 6:12 pm, "Mike Russell" <
MOVE> wrote:
"allenc" wrote in message

I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG’s of Monet artwork. In a graphics program if I view ‘image information’ it says they are 2600 X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated from a smaller image?

This is an interesting question.  If you are seeing pixellated data, that may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg artifacting.  Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes color and brightness values.

I would do this by making several duplicates of the image in Photoshop, resizing each one down by an increasing amount, and then resizing back again.  Then go compare the images and see at what point you can tell the difference.  This is a subjective judgment.  Sharpening or other manipulations may have been applied to the image, and you are really looking for meaningful data, such as canvas and paint texture, brush marks, etc.
For example, create 3 copies, resize the them to 66, 50, and 25 percent of the original.  Then resize them again to match the original size.  To make comparing easier, create a new image and drag the layers from the original, and the three copies to that image.  Then click on the "eye-cons" in the layer palette to hide and show individual layers for comparison with the original.  Add noise and/or sharpen with unsharp mask to see if you can match one of the resized images to the original.

None of this constitutes proof that there was any deception involved, but it will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels.  For example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of effective resolution.

Mike Russell  -www.curvemeister.com

Hi – I actually use Paint Shop Pro graphics program and I am not sophisticated enough to do all the layer comparison you speak about. I was hoping there was just a simple way to tell if these were truly 300 dpi at that pixel size.

will prove that the image does not really contain a full 9 megapixels. For example the images may have been scanned from slides with less than 9mp of effective resolution.

What is the 9mp you mention ? Where did you get that number ? Is that what the size of the JPG should be for this size image?
What about if i save these as TIF, is there anyway to tell if they are smaller images that have been artificailly enlarged?

Thanks,

Allen
JM
James McNangle
Feb 22, 2008
"Mike Russell" wrote:

"allenc" wrote in message
I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG’s of Monet artwork. In a graphics program if I view ‘image information’ it says they are 2600 X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated from a smaller image?

This is an interesting question. If you are seeing pixellated data, that may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg artifacting. Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes color and brightness values.

I think this most likely means that the pictures were shot at a lower resolution, and then resized, as you suggest. However it is also possible that they have been saved as a JPEG with an excessive compression factor at some stage along the way. The easiest way to detect this is to look for thin vertical lines in the sky. If excessive compression has been used it will cause ‘echoes’ to propagate out from the lines on both sides.

James McNangle
A
allenc
Feb 22, 2008
On Feb 22, 2:16 pm, James McNangle wrote:
"Mike Russell" wrote:
"allenc" wrote in message
I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG’s of Monet artwork. In a graphics program if I view ‘image information’ it says they are 2600 X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated from a smaller image?

This is an interesting question.  If you are seeing pixellated data, that may be an indication that the images were resized, or it could just be jpeg artifacting.  Jpeg not only has a finite cell size, but it also quantizes color and brightness values.

I think this most likely means that the pictures were shot at a lower resolution, and then resized, as you suggest.  However it is also possible that they have been saved as a JPEG with an excessive compression factor at some stage along the way.  The easiest way to detect this is to look for thin vertical lines in the sky.  If excessive compression has been used it will cause ‘echoes’ to propagate out from the lines on both sides.

James McNangle

When I expand it to 100% I do see lines, the pixels start appearing as lines. Could I attach and send you one of the images to your email and you could tell me what you think?

Thanks,

Allen
P
pico
Feb 22, 2008
"allenc" wrote in message
I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG’s of Monet artwork. In a graphics program if I view ‘image information’ it says they are 2600 X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated from a smaller image?

They lied, or just raging incompetents.
Pixels are pixels.
You got a ~7×10" ‘print’ (300ppi) image or a monitor image of ~27×37"
A
allenc
Feb 22, 2008
On Feb 22, 2:50 pm, "pico" <pico.pico.pico> wrote:
"allenc" wrote in message

I purchased some supposedly high resolution JPG’s of Monet artwork. In a graphics program if I view ‘image information’ it says they are 2600 X 3600 pixels at 300 dpi. However if I expand them in my graphics program to 100% they apppear to be pixelated. How can I tell if they were truly shot at this resolution or if they have been manipulated from a smaller image?

They lied, or just raging incompetents.
Pixels are pixels.
You got a ~7×10" ‘print’ (300ppi) image or a monitor image of ~27×37"

I’ve got a 2600 X 3600 supposedly at 300 ppi, but if I expand it to 100% on the screen, it has some blocky pixels and ugly lines.

alllen
J
jjs
Feb 23, 2008
"allenc" wrote in message

I’ve got a 2600 X 3600 supposedly at 300 ppi, but if I expand it to 100% on the screen, it has some blocky pixels and ugly lines.

Just look to the pixels. That’s the only thing that is real. If someone pokes in 300, 360 ppi or whatever it makes no difference. They are either incompetent or rip-off types. In the end, it makes no difference because they do not deliver what they claim.

Send us their source and we can release Guido to break their legs.
OR
Owen Ransen
Feb 23, 2008
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:08:54 -0800 (PST), allenc
wrote:

Hi – I actually use Paint Shop Pro graphics program and I am not sophisticated enough to do all the layer comparison you speak about. I was hoping there was just a simple way to tell if these were truly 300 dpi at that pixel size.

Forget about dpi, that tells you nothing. The point is the pixel width and height.

What is the 9mp you mention ? Where did you get that number ?

2600 X 3600 = 9360000

Easy to use graphics effects:
http://www.ransen.com/
JM
James McNangle
Feb 23, 2008
allenc wrote:

When I expand it to 100% I do see lines, the pixels start appearing as lines. Could I attach and send you one of the images to your email and you could tell me what you think?

I guess so, but title it something like ‘Sample image, as discusses on comp graphics’ or it is likely to go in the bin, along with all the girls with oversized body parts.

James McNangle
A
allenc
Feb 25, 2008
On Feb 23, 2:37 pm, James McNangle wrote:
allenc wrote:
When I expand it to 100% I do see lines, the pixels start appearing as lines. Could I attach and send you one of the images to your email and you could tell me what you think?

I guess so, but  title it something like ‘Sample image, as discusses on comp graphics’ or it is likely to go in the bin, along with all the girls with oversized body parts.

James McNangle

What’s your private email ? I’ll send it over to you.

Thanks,

Allen

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