First off, let me say I have never had this problem prior to PS8. This is now the 4th file i have lost to problems in PS8. All files are .PSB format .. The files are either unrecognized by PS8 and Un-Openable or there is a problem reading the layer data. and my only option is to read composite data instead. Then you get the window that states (document has been damaged by a disk error. The most likely causes of this error are a defective disk drive, a defective disk drive cable or incorrect peripheral cable termination. Some of the pixels in this document may be invalid. Open anyway? ) When you read composite data it opens but nothing is in the file but a white screen and this type in 4 languages saying ( This layered PS file was not saved with a composite image )
I have no other issues with either of the internal disks being used in the G5 with OS X.2.3. No issues with other apps. No ram or Disk issues according to all repair utilities. Tech tool pro 4, Cocktail, Disk Warrior & permissions are Run at least twice a week. I have seen others reporting lost or corrupted files in PS8. I have been backing up but this is not realistic, basically cutting my computer in 1/2 and considerable time wasted since each file 1-4 gigs must be reopened and checked after saving. I am now moving back to PS7 something I do not want to do due to the file size limit. Whats the situation with an update to fix these issues adobe?
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Not over network, & yes Enable large file sizes are on. You can’t save a file over 2 gigs without it. Some of the files were not over the 2 gig limit but were saved in .psb anyway. Never again! Side note, extensis portfolio 6.1.3 has issues with .psb files.
Have you manually checked RAM by removing it except for 2 sticks. do you still have the problem? next 2 sticks? keep doing this till all combinations have been exhausted. photoshop is much more taxing on RAM that esting software.
Tested Ram As best as possible. It’s unrealistic to run without partial ram installed for any length of time and since this is such an intermittent issue, 6 files lost since 8 released, but it has happened on 2 different machines. No utility shows any ram issues. No other app has had any issues with it. No other issues of any kind on either of the machines. No issues of this kind ever in PS7 on these machines. that leads me to think with all of the issues in 8, that this is a severe one for big file workers.
I do but Very few people work in these size files & .psb format. Those that do are seeing problems that point to the software. Considering this loss of files problem is as serious as it gets, I would expect something from adobe on it with great urgency. At The Very Least, that they recognize the problem and are working on a fix to be released asap
Not Hardware, to many people with the same problem on different G4’s & G5’s. 4 people report in this forum alone, most people never report issues. Several others over the past months in other forums. 4 people that I know of personally that never come to this forum. Houston, we have a problem in OS or PS.
Chris, they don’t. Many don’t. Most think it is so obvious a problem ( not just this issue) so Adobe must know about it, so why report. A fix should come, so many just go back to 7. Many people think it is a waste of time reporting bugs to such big company’s.
Obvious problem in that its hugh if you loose a file, Not obvious to find. I suggest you have someone working in large 2.5-4 gig images around the clock because the problem exists. I do this daily and have seen it 6 times since the release on different machines. It’s intermitant but it excists and others see it. The fact you have not been able to reproduce does not mean the problem is not there esp. considering several other people have had the exact same issue on different machines in this forum alone. I doubt seriously it is anything hardware considering that & that it has been seen on new G5’s of all variations. What do you suggest is the problem then given that fact? I have No other machine or major software issues.
I understand your frustration, but what you summarily describe doesn’t help Adobe reproduce or find the problem.
See if you can pinpoint what all those machines have in common, types and brands of RAM sticks, internal and external drives, other peripherals, cables, servers, etc. What about the images? Common fonts? Common elements? Until you find a common thread, posting over and over won’t be conducive to a resolution.
I understand that completely and have listed all of mine and other configs that would be of help in other threads. I have not been able to reproduce the problem, it just happens, but has happened enough over the time since 8 released to be considered serious. The problem is, the only common thread with this problem from all reporting it is PS8 with OSX and large files. Never in PS7 & OSX. Even on the same machines. And, that it is as serious as it gets, your loosing files or corruption. That points to software issues and a bug that needs to be found. It maybe OSX and or it may be PS8. Since it hasn’t happened in 7 leads you to think 8 is the problem. Dust off the beta testers and have them work in 2-4 gig images or get new testers that deal with large files and find the bugger.
First, I’m not with Adobe. Second, it sounds like you don’t get the point. Adobe says it has tried to reproduce your problem and they can’t. With as little information as you have provided, I doubt anyone could reproduce the same conditions and configurations you are working under.
I get the point! Little information? I have given all info that adobe has asked for and more! Even sent them a file months ago. Ask me anything specific that could lead to finding the bug, I have been more than willing. The problem is not the configuration since it has happened on many different configurations / machines/hardrives,different ram settings. AGAIN the common thread here is OSX & 8. I know it’s vague, but that is what we have. That they haven’t found it doesn’t mean it does not exist. It’s obvious it is a very intermittent problem. But never the less a serious problem. I don’t like playing Russian Roulette, but that is what your doing with this combination.
Then explain the others that have filled the same issues here chris? You know it’s not just my 2 machines. i have told you about others also. Do you have to reach a ratio before you take the bug reports seriously? I have also worked with large files successfully, that means nothing. I DO IT DAILY! It’s INTERMITTENT, VERY INTERMITTENT. That is corporate hogwash passing the buck, others are succesful, give me a break. I guess I’m wasting my time here reporting issues if you have that attitude.
The chances of a few people having similar symptoms from different causes (bad drives, bad software install, bad cables, bad RAM, etc.) is pretty good. (and happens WAY too often around here)
Yes, we need more people to say that they’ve seen the exact same problem, and that they’ve ruled out other causes, and give us steps to reproduce the problem.
And if these other people are having such serious trouble – WHY are they not reporting it? Only a few have. And nobody would blow off something this serious.
Rember a fairy tale about the sky falling? Just because something happens to you does not mean it is happening to everyone, or that you have attributed it to the correct cause.
I’m taking this seriously, but currently you’re blowing it out of proportion (and making it harder for others to take it seriously).
but currently you’re blowing it out of proportion (and making it harder for others to take it seriously).
Chris loose 10 days of work you have done then tell me I’m blowing this out of proportion. For the last time on this. You say 4 people here but you ignore what I have told you that 2 other large output providers that I deal with in CA with at least 6 different machines in house each have seen similar lost file issues and the numerous postings in other forums on this same issue. they all went back to 7. It might be 4 people here. Most people don’t come here and report problems. They just don’t!
Lets drop all this and get to the point of finding the problem.
During the year in which I was an alpha, then beta tester, I spent a great deal of my time testing the robustness of large file handlingI have about three terabytes of images in the 3-4GB range. I never encountered the problem you’ve described, on three different machines, and I can assure you that I was far from being the only tester habitually working with large files.
The fact that the problem doesn’t manifest itself in 7 is simply because it’s impossible for the problem to manifest itself in 7 because 7 can’t create files that size.
4, 10, or 50 people are hardly statistically significant in the Photoshop universe. It’s entirely likely that all those people have a bad cable or bad RAM or a flaky HD controller or some other hardware issue.
The first order of business in finding the problem is in reproducing it. The Photoshop team can do pretty amazing things, but they can’t fix a problem until they reproduce it. I’m halfway through the second terabyte of images on the second of three machines, and it hasn’t yet manifested itself. I suspect that it isn’t going to…
All Problem files completely unusable. Either as describe at the beginning of this thread or unrecognized by PS and Un Open-able. Everyone that I now or have read about here and other forums are seeing the same type of problem when it occurs. I have not heard of partial corruption where the file opens and partial image is there.
While that is all fine and dandy that you never encountered the problem, that as we know doesn’t mean it does not exist. Several other bugs slipped through beta testing and always do, some significant. It also doesn’t mean that people that have seen the problem have faulty hardware. Assuming that they do is counter productive until it can be proven otherwise. The fact it has happened on several machines of Knowledgeable professionals that maintain solid working environments by properly maintaining work stations and running the proper utilities says something. This is not 1 machine or type of configuration here that we are talking about. It’s not a bad cord! I wish I could tell you to do steps A B C and the bug would show it’s ugly head, but i can’t. If it was that easy, beta testing would have found it.
A guy buys five cars of the same model from a dealership and he experiences problems with five of them. Hundreds of other buyers don’t experience the problem.
The guy demands that the dealer test its entire remaining inventory until the same problems are found. The dealer and the manufacturer have a bunch of test drivers trying, but they can’t reproduce the problem.
Is it unreasonable to ask about who is driving those problems cars, how, on what roads, what kind of gas they’re using, etc.?
So far I haven’t been able to discern if your problem machines are using the same kind of (brand and model) of RAM, drives, cables, what kind of room they’re in, monitors, video cards, RAM sticks, what haxies you’re using, what drivers, RIP, etc. Maybe Adobe has a clairvoyant plugin and should be able to tell, and if that’s the case, then your problem will eventually be solved.
With what Adobe knows now, I don’t think this is going to happen.
You are the one suffering the consequences, and you should be the one most eager one to help Adobe reproduce the problem.
Ramon, What don’t you understand? All of the info you keep talking about has already been given to Adobe in this, other threads and direct emails! Maybe your not aware of it, but it has been posted, numerous times. No clairvoyant plugin needed. Any-other info they need, they can ask in a question and they will receive as always.
I did see the "other threads". Not much information there. Read my post #32:
So far I haven’t been able to discern if your problem machines are using the same kind of (brand and model) of RAM, drives, cables, what kind of room they’re in, monitors, video cards, RAM sticks, what haxies you’re using, what drivers, RIP, etc.
Obviously, I’m not privy to any direct emails you may have sent Adobe. If all pertinent information was in fact in those emails, then there’s nothing else you can do. But what has appeared publicly on this board tells me zilch. Yes, I searched the forums for messages posted by "zoozx".
Maybe you sent Adobe complete Apple System Profiler reports; I have no way of knowing.
bruce, we got corruption on just one 20mb file…so to us the size wasnt the issue…it hasnt happened again, but i happened…i just thought i’d see if that was any help
The fact it has happened on several machines of Knowledgeable professionals that maintain solid working environments by properly maintaining work stations and running the proper utilities says something.
Who are these Knowledgeable professionals you keep refering to and why haven’t they come forward? Just curious.
And you wonder why some people don’t come here to report issue’s when 65 % of a thread is more concerned with junk other than the actual problem. If Adobe has any questions trying to solve the problem I’m more than willing. I will be out of town for 3 days. Good luck.
My only question is still: what is different about the machines having problems? Why do your machines see problems that nobody else is seeing (or very, very few people are seeing)?
Are you using external drives for files or scratch?
Are you using an RAID arrays, IDE or SCSI cards?
Do you have any particular third party software installed?
There has to be SOMETHING about your machines that’s different and making this happen, or possibly making it show up more often than for other users.
Chris…do you think my problem is a random one that i shouldnt bother to investigate further? I only ask, because its a tested clean and only runs the CS suite and nothing is attached.
Progress – I just don’t know. If it does happen again, then I’d start looking at the components and configuration for problems.
Random disk errors are going to happen from time to time — and the exact appearance of the error/artifact will depend on the file format used (some will be lines, some will be blocks, some will be the whole image or an error).
"My only question is still: what is different about the machines having problems? "
"Are you using external drives for files or scratch?" No!
"Are you using an RAID arrays, IDE or SCSI cards?" No!
"Do you have any particular third party software installed?" Haxies, No, none. These 2 machines are dedicated to PS. No problems in 7 on either. Problems started with 8. No problems since going back to 7.
"Why do your machines see problems that nobody else is seeing (or very, very few people are seeing)? " Lets stop with the digs about how many or how few. You say I say. Others have seen this and when you loose files it’s serious. Accept the fact, some people are having serious issues with 8. Trying to chk in once a day.
No problems because PS 7 doesn’t DO files that big.
Accept the fact that only a few people have reported this and I can’t treat it as a widespread bug. Other users aren’t having any problems — so it still looks like just a few isolated users with bad machines.
Unless you come up with a way to repeat the problem, or many more users who report having the same problem – I can’t do much more than what we’re already doing.
No coffee, Guiness some response to the aboves. Ram, Both. G4 machine has all Original, 2 years old, no issues and passes all ram tests, only issue is the 8 file corruption. G5 dual Had the problem with both original first then again after additional 3rd party Ram was added. I Swapped out original with another G5 user as a test and had the same problem a month down the road. ALL ram tests good with all utilities use TT, DW, Cocktail, including apple repair disk.
Both Drives apple installed in Dual G5, The G4 has 2 original Apple Drives, 2 other drives added a year ago, All internal. No firewire being used.
Chris, " No problems because PS 7 doesn’t DO files that big."
Well there your wrong. File sizes under 2 gigs have been the majority of the problems with most people and those files are doable in 7. Just not in .psb. That points to .psb maybe being the problem. 5 of my problem files where .psb, 1 was .psd. 3 of my files were under 2 gigs and 2 of those were under 1.5 gigs. It’s not "Bad machines", no way. No problems in 7 like this since it released and i usualy work daily in PS. To many people have recognized this problem on different machines and configurations without any other issues noted. You say they haven’t reported here, Ok maybe they haven’t, but this problem is out there from my experience and readings. I’m more than willing to supply any info for you guys here but i don’t want to argue if there is a problem or not. It maybe an issue with something hardware in the machines (doubtful since different types & configs) but then it is a software conflict that should not be. It’s not repeatable, but that does not mean it’s not a existing bug or conflict. There are no signs of a problem when saving. The only sign of a problem is when you go to open the file down the road and it is no longer usable. None of the files where ever moved, copied, or touched in any way from the last saving until it was opened and found unusable. hope it helps
passes all ram tests…ALL ram tests good with all utilities
zoozx, please pardon my knucklehead, I am only trying to help.
I saved this from a post when I was slugging out RAM issues:
Chris Cox wrote: "A bad cable, bad card, bad switch, bad/misconfigured router, bad repeater, bad termination, bad wiring, bad hard drive, bad controller, bad connections, bad logic board, bad CPU (Altivec) just about anything between your computer and other computers can also cause these symptoms
Timing problems are the biggest case that most test programs won’t catch. Yet applications will hit them maybe 1/10,000,000 times which is often enough to cause problems.
"Also, testing programs are not using AltiVec or streaming cachehints which change the memory access patterns.
"Testing programs also do most of their testing linearly through memory which does NOT test rapid page (CAS) changes (which applications sometimes cause)." Chris
+++++
I guess my point is, the only way to rule out RAM is to pull it and run without it?
Yeah, I agree, i did that but could not pin any chip down and say that is the problem. There is only so long you can work without all of the ram at hand to test something, esp. on big files. I have had the problem on 2 different computers with different ram types that did not have Any issues in 7. If it was just Ram, I think I would have had issues with 2 gig files in 7? Also swapped ram with a friend and had the problem since. The problem is so intermittent that you may not see it for a month and you don’t have a clue when it happens? A really tough problem to pin down.
I haven’t tried. But from now on I will be using .tiff for any images i need to do over 2 gigs. Trying to stay in 7 as much as possible. Noticably faster to it seems than 8.
Well – same problem here as zoozx was writing – but – and this might be interesting – on windows 2000 / PS8 (I AM AWARE ITS THE MAC FORUM). Im working on a bigformatscan project with 200 x 150 cm @ 400 dpi pix and ~ 24 layers. Working in PS8 is fine for about 8-10 changes – after that parts of the picture disappear (get white – in cubic style) – but only at 12.5 % and smaller. Zooming in shows the missing parts. After another 5-10 changes (history-steps) colors in some layers change (it looks like a green or red transparent layer over it). After a little more working & saving and loading again the same error messages appear as zoozx describes it. The picture opens but is damaged completely or at least with the white/green/red cubes that disappeared when zooming – now the data is gone. I had this Problem about 4-5 times now. I use PS7 now to do all the changes in the pix which i divided into 2 *.psd files which i assamble later in PS8 but avoiding having more than 8-10 history steps.
HD Problem is nearly impossible – i got a 320 GB Raid for this work just some weeks ago (as Chris recommended earlier becuase of scratch problem due to file size). RAM Problem is more possible … but all other Progs work fine and the win2000 installation was fresh.
zoozx – PSB is almost identical to PSD. They share the same code for 99.5% of the format.
The next time you get a corrupted file, burn it to a DVD and contact me for mailing instructions. I might be able to figure out how it was corrupted (or at least rule out some sources of corruption).
Wildsmile – that is almost certainly a RAM or HD problem you’re describing. And just because a drive is new doesn’t mean it isn’t bad. I’d lean towards a RAM problem from what you describe though.
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