Saving in PDF format…which is crispest?

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Posted By
ewk
Jul 6, 2004
Views
912
Replies
27
Status
Closed
I have a business card that I have created for a client…lots of type and solid areas of color (CMYK). The printer wants it sent via pdf and from what I’ve been reading I think that ZIP encoding gives the best quality…is this correct?

But, I noticed that if I choose ZIP encoding I can’t embed the fonts. I have merged the layers into 1 layer, but not flattened it. Would the type still be considered vector at this point or is it raster and not as crisp? If it is vector then do I still need to embed the fonts or is it not necessary because the layers are merged?

I appreciate any clarification!

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MO
Mike_Ornellas
Jul 6, 2004
Oh you poor soul.
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ewk
Jul 6, 2004
And…..????
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Jul 6, 2004
and what?

anyone who sets type in Photoshop and expects it to come out as vector art, clearly has spoken with the person printing the file.
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ewk
Jul 6, 2004
True…plus obviously I don’t know what I’m doing…which is why I’m asking here. I might be using the terms incorrectly but the bottom line is, what is the best way to save this file in pdf…..zip or jpeg? Layers or not layered? I want the type to be as crisp as possible. Thanks
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Jul 6, 2004
Than to avoid issues or misunderstandings from your service provider, you need to set the type in a page layout application. Most service providers don’t know what to do with text in Photoshop.

If you save a Photoshop PDF and place it into In Design and save that as a PDF, the text will print as vectors, as long as your service provider has a RIP that supports "single file postscript" workflows. This means no continuous tone and line work separations in the Riped files.

at least, I haven’t got it to work.

In general, use ZIP compression or none!
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ewk
Jul 6, 2004
I’m sending this to a Kinkos, at the client’s request, so I doubt they will have such a rip. What if I saved the PS file as an eps, inported it into Quark, then saved the Quark file as an pdf. Would the text be crisp then?
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Jul 6, 2004
maybe:

Make sure you save a working file as a PSD or layered TIF document because you can’t re-open an eps file back into Photoshop that has vectors. It will be rasterized.

Why do you need to create a PDF?

Just send Kinkos the quark document with the Photoshop EPS.

Let them be responsible for the output.

A PDF is a binding arbitration for finger pointing.
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ewk
Jul 6, 2004
Kinkos has requested twice I send them a pdf. I think I’ll just do what you’ve said and send the Quark file anyway…Thanks Mike.
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Jul 6, 2004
When you send the EPS file to Kinkos, make sure you include vector objects when saving the EPS!

Otherwise, your type will be pixel based.
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ewk
Jul 6, 2004
When I save the layered file as eps without merging, check inlcude vector data, then and pull it into Quark…. it appears without the vector data…no type on the eps file in Quark.

When I merge all the layers, before saving to an eps, I don’t have the include vector data option available (does type become rasterized when merging?).

What I am doing wrong here?
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ewk
Jul 6, 2004
I forgot to mention that when I pull the "merged layered" eps into Quark all the text is there…but has it rasterized by then?
MO
Mike_Ornellas
Jul 6, 2004
doing wrong?

Don’t flatten the file.

Don’t rely on the preview in Quark.

Print the file to a laser printer that supports postscript to check the text.
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ewk
Jul 6, 2004
Well, we’re back to almost square one here. Called Kinkos this am…they want only a pdf file.

So, at this point the question is…if I do not save layers when saving as pdf, but keep vector data enabled, will the text be as crisp as if I saved layers when making the pdf (and still keep vector data enabled)?

Since vector data enabled option is available with both, I would assume either way would render crisp type, but to me, logically using one layer would rasterize it …no?
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 6, 2004
Just make sure that you have a 300 ppi 8-bit file.
Keep the layers intact.
Save AS a Photoshop PDF (to a new name) and remember to check both: "Include vector Data" and
"Embed Fonts".
Encoding: ZIP.

Open your PDF in Acrobat and zoom in. Your type will be crisp — even if you zoom in to 1600%.
KN
Ken_Nielsen
Jul 6, 2004
ewk could be using 7.0? OS 9? or is the software up to date? If you are doing graphics work, try to get InDesign in the near future, and the CS package.
RL
Ronald_Lanham
Jul 6, 2004
ewk

If you’re using Kinkos and you’re not enlarging it greatly I don’t think you’ll actually see a difference that will be worth worry about. You would probably have to lupe it to notice.

For a business card done at Kinkos… believe me… that’s the least of your worries. <g>
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ewk
Jul 7, 2004
I know, Kinkos was definately not my choice but the client insisted.
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ewk
Jul 7, 2004
Thanks Ann, this has been a real learning experience. Can you explain to me why it’s better to keep the file layered vs. merging (not flattening) the layers?
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ewk
Jul 7, 2004
Hi Ken, Good recommendation…I am on 9 still, soon to be on Panther. I’m an old Quark user but time to switch. Thank you all for your good advice, and especially Mike for the late night rescue.
LT
Laurentiu_Todie
Jul 7, 2004
Convert text layer to shape, save as PDF.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 7, 2004
<< Can you explain to me why it’s better to keep the file layered vs. merging (not flattening) the layers? >>

Because your text will be saved as real TYPE together with its Font.

The resulting PDF will contain your Type (as a vectored image) and will also contain your embedded Fonts.

That is why the text remains crisp (even when viewed at 1600%!) while you can see the pixels in your rastered images at that magnification.

Just be sure that you remember to check the Include Vector Data and Embed Fonts boxes while saving your PDFs.
LT
Laurentiu_Todie
Jul 7, 2004
It’s a business card, (not the US Constitution : )
…. and the Photoshop file doesn’t need to be saved, just the PDF.
TL
Tim_Lookingbill
Jul 7, 2004
Ann,

Is this why pdf’s I’ve downloaded off the web don’t print as sharp as the type printed through IE with my HP Laserjet 5L B/W printer? The pdf’s are slightly fuzzy edged.
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ewk
Jul 7, 2004
There seem to be several different ways to achieve all this…to make sure I’ve got it correct: I can save live type by Anne’s method above – or – change the type layer to shape and then save as layered or non-layered pdf. Either way, the text should remain sharp. Is the only difference in that live type is editable and shape is not?
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 7, 2004
Shape is not only non-editable but it no longer true to the font either!

Shape is similar to using font outlines in Illustrator: you lose the carefully created "hinting" which is responsible for the fine detailing of well-designed fonts.

Forget this Shape business and just let Photoshop PDFs embed your fonts in the normal manner. For small point-sizes, having good reproduction of type is especially important.

As for files which you have downloaded from the Web, they probably were not saved with vectors and embedded fonts. Open them in Acrobat and you will easily be able to check that.
LT
Laurentiu_Todie
Jul 7, 2004
Ann, (I think you know but others may not) Hinting is the ability of a font to look the same (or close) at different sizes (by design).
If the shapes (or outlines) don’t look like the live type, the font (or Photoshop) has a problem and the RIP may have the same with the live type anyway.

If the shapes or outlines look good, they’ll print that way (cast in stone : ) …. and the resolution for the RIP will be a minimum (worst scenario) of 800 ppi.

Now, if only Kinko’s can trap this document…
(I’d trap it in Illustrator as outlines anyway)
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 7, 2004
LT:

You have opened a new can of worms!

What color is the type?
Is it overprinting or dropping out?
Over, or from, what?

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