No, you don’t get that level of support until you get up to Photoshop CS. Personally I think it’s overrated; I have PS CS and have done some scanning in 48 bit. Maybe it was just the photos I was scanning, but scanning at that level seemed to introduce unwanted artifacts – like it was picking up way too much information.
I’ve had good results with 16 bits TIFF (3 x 16 = 48 bits, just in case…) where the lighting conditions were less than ideal (at night or moments before the sun sets, fireworks, those kind of environment).
The difference is that those pictures came from my camera directly (Canon 10D), not from a scanner.
Ray
I agree with you Beth. One of NASA’s photo guys stated that he has never found a 48 bit image with more than 27 bits of meaningful color data, the rest was basically noise to fill out the histogram. He has offered to test a photo if any of us thought we had one with more useful data.
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Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/ wrote in message
No, you don’t get that level of support until you get up to Photoshop
CS. Personally I think it’s overrated; I have PS CS and have done some scanning in 48 bit. Maybe it was just the photos I was scanning, but scanning at that level seemed to introduce unwanted artifacts – like it was picking up way too much information.
I think the 48 bit would be great for "new" images, because there is a lot more depth to the image. I just didn’t like what it was digging up! 🙂 I wound up rescanning at a lower setting and the results were much easier to work it. It’s going to depend on the original more than anything, though. The better shape it’s in the better digital image you’ll wind up with.
Thanks Beth and all of you,
My BenQ scanner has three scan modes
1, High Speed
2, High Quality up to 24-bit color
3, High Quality 48 bits
I’m just wonder why BenQ deliver the software Photoshop Elements v1.0.1 with the scanner when it only support High Speed and High Quality up to 24-bit color. But OK as you recommend I will choice the High Quality up to 24-bit color mode.
regards
stephan Lykke
It’s only been since the release of Photoshop CS that Adobe had a program that would support 48 bit. Elements v 1 was based on full PS 6.0; Elements v 2 was based on PS 7.0. Maybe Elements v 3 will support 48 bit, since it’s assumed it’ll be built on the CS engine. The scanner manufacturers just moved along more quickly with their technology than the software developers. BenQ probably couldn’t find an affordable software to bundle with the scanner that would support 48 bit.
Beth, FYI – Photoshop 7 does support 48-bit, albeit with a limited set of tools that can be employed. CS has really started to push 48-bit to the forefront.
Isn’t it true that Elements will open a 48/16 bit image after telling you that it’s converting to 24/8? If so, I’d continue to scan in 48-bit in the event that later you acquire software that can handle it.
I think PS 4 supported 16 bit? Certainly 5 on did.
One should always SCAN at the highest bit depth the device allows. Even if the scanner doesn’t save 16 bit files, you want it to sample all it can before converting the "best of the bits".
Mac
Thanks for answer
sow Beth then I have to buy new software if I will use 48-bit color am I right? or which mode will you recommend me to use, High Speed,
High Speed 24-bit color or 48-bit.??
Regards
Lykke
Always SCAN at highest bit depth. Always.
Regardless of whether outputting to 8 or 16 bit file, or TWAINing into an app, even one like Elements, that only supports 8 bit.
Mac
Thanks for your answer,
Mac Mc Dougald, you mean I shell SCAN my pictures in 48 bit even if my Photoshop Elements v1.0.1 do not supports 48 bit, am I right ??
Regards
Lykke
Yes, scan in 48 bit.
This allows the scanner to get all possible information from the original, and then select the best 24 bits to keep, whether saving to 24 bit file, or TWAINing directly into Elements.
Particularly important for scanning film, less so for flat copy, but still always the best practice.
Mac
Mac is exceptionally good at this kind of stuff and most of his information is very accurate, but I’d strongly suggest you do some testing for yourself. I did find that 48 bit scans were definitely NOT preferable for some of my old photos. I strongly suspect that quality of the original, scanner settings, and variations in the eyesight and personal opinions of different people effect the results. What looks "bad" to me might look good to you, and vice versa. If the equipment and process are new to you, experiment and go with what you find most pleasing.
You had your scanner scan in 48 bit and got worse results than 24 bit? Never heard anyone ever claim that.
What scanner? These old photos flat copy?
Heck, many scanners don’t even give an option of input bit depth; they just scan at max they have (mostly 12-14 bit anymore) and do the conversion. Some have output options.
3rd party interfaces like VueScan allow more options for many scanners for input/output bit depth than the manufacturer’s interfaces do.
Mac
We’re mainly talking about sample bit depth anymore, not output bit depth.
Mac
You have to ask the question: Does doubling the filesize of an image meet the value of what results over using 24bit … especially since you’re using a 24bit RGB limited program? Even using full PhotoShop I’ve yet to find an image where I’ve gotten appreciable increase in print quality using 48bit color over 32bit CMYK color for commercial printing. And even power systems appreciably slow down (especially large format prints) tend to really bog down in working and printing speed using 48bit.
Bob
And, btw, there is NO quality improvment in printing a 48 bit file, since printers don’t DO 48 bit.
The advantages are all in the editing functions while still in 48 bit, producing (in some cases) a better final 24 bit image than those same functions having been done in 24 bit in the first place.
Mac
Thanks Mac, but why not also saving to 48 bit ?? or is it not possible in Elements.
Lykke
If your scanner software allows you to save in 48 bit, you can do so. Folks are much divided re the actual benefits of editing in 48 bit.
Histograms prove that 48 bit editing is highly desirable. Human eyeballs prove that the majority of images benefit marginally, if at all, but that some images benefit significantly.
But no, Elements won’t even OPEN a 48bit file, or acquire one with TWAIN. Converts to 24.
Mac
Mac I’m just beginning to use my Epson 3200 Pro, and the photo I scanned at 48 bit was about 12 years old, taken with a Nikon almost-but-not-quite point and shoot my folks had.
If you read back, you’ll see I said some of this will be depend on how a person perceives what they’re getting, not to mention their degree of competence in editing. I tried working with that 48 bit scan in CS, and the results were dismal. I don’t have it anymore or else I’d look at it again and try to come up with a way to describe the difference between it and another scan of the same photo taken at a lower bit depth. That’s why I suggested Stephan do some experimenting. Just because 48 bit is perceived as being preferable, there are just so many variables involved that I think people need to work with their equipment and figure out what works for them. And it may not always be that 48 bit is better on old flat snapshots. Now YOU could probably have worked with that image file and gotten great results, but not me! 🙂
Thanks Mac is was a pleasant to whrite with you, now I can start to do some scans, I have also some old slide from 1970 is it recommend to scan them in 48 bit too.
Don’t worried Haney i will do some experinenting my self, now i know a little more about scanners, I will try to scan some slides from 1970 and some negatives from 1991
Regards
Stephan
Hi Mac,
Which resolution do you perfer to scan film/slide in, I have a choice between 600dpi to 2700dpi ??
regards
Stephan
Stephan, the resolution you choose will be somewhat related to the size of print you think you might want to make. The target printing size is a resolution of roughly 300ppi. You can get good prints from less than that and also from higher, but it makes a good gauge when you’re trying to decide on resolution of a scan. Here’s a site with a scanning calculator you can use. An example would be: If you’re scanning a 35mm slide and think you might want an 8 X 10 print (before cropping), you should set the resolution to 2400ppi.
<
http://www.image-access.net/calc/index.html>
When I scan slides, I always use the highest OPTICAL resolution. Some scanners have a built in digital resolution that’s higher, but you’d be better off to let Elements do any upward resampling if you find you need to.
Well, again, the thread has evolved to the point of where I only recommend SCANNING in 48 bit (for scanner interfaces that offer a choice).
Actually saving/working with 48 is another matter, and note my continual mantra here:
– histograms prove that editing in 48 bit is better
– human eyeballs prove that it usually doesn’t matter
Mac
Just follow Beth’s fine advice.
Also you might want to read up on ALL this at Wayne Fulton’s fine site:
http://scantips.com Calculator there also, but more importantly, this is one of THE sites for newbie scanners.
Mac
Hi Haney, thanks a lot for the scanning calculator it will be useful, I will like to scan my negatives in a resolution so I can use them to little of all, first of all I will like to run a diasshow on my 19" monitor in full frame (area), the resolution setting on my monitor is right now 1280×1024 that mean I have to scan 1280 or higher ?? and so will I see them on a 28" TV
regards
Stephan
OK thanks to both of you, now is no excuse to start scanning, I have 1200 negatives from a trip a round the world, so it may take some time, but don’t worried I have the whole summer, you may see the pictures some time on the internet.
good night
bye bye
Stephan
Your monitor resolution, image resolution (pixels per inch/’ppi’) and printer resolution (dots per inch/’dpi’) are all separate types of measures. If all you want to do is view images on your monitor or look at them on TV, the resolution can be very low. I’d suggest you take a look at both the site on scanning that Mac gave you the link to and also take a look at what’s available at the link I’ll post. The one I’m giving you will give you some good basic information on image resolution, which is one thing you should have a good grasp of before you go too much further.
<
http://www.arraich.com/elements/psE_intro.htm>
You almost certainly want much higher rez than that for other purposes. See Beth’s next post, look at all 3 sites that have been recommended.
Mac
Does anyone know when, or if "Elements" 2.0 will be able to process 48bit tiff color files?
I suppose I should be asking adobe, but where/to whom do I ask.
Photoshop Elements 2.0 will open the image, only after it "converts" them in 24 bits (3 x 8).
Ray
