Can someone confirm color management using Epson C80?

I had a problem with my Epson R310 and a red colour cast. I fixed it by turning off all colour management (including the printer’s own ICM) and using the advanced adjustments of the printer interface to reduce magenta (-16 points) and yellow (-8 points).

I arrived at these settings by using a known (digital) photograph as a reference point. When it looked right on my monitor, after adjusting the screen colours – Radeon video cards are great for this …I made a print with no ICM profile and no colour management. Next I adjusted the printers colour and density (via Epson management) until the prints looked the same as on the screen.

The reason I did it this way was the conflicting advise from people in this group who insist colour management is essential and even Epson themselves as to how best to balance the colour of a print. I am not alone in total frustration on printer output colour.

Now I can send images to an ‘Lambda’ digital laser photo printer (for enlargements). An Agfa photo lab (client proofs) and my Magicolor Laser (short run postcards) or print on my Epson and except for very slight differences related to paper and ink/toner/chemical peculiarities, they all look pretty much colour correct and the right density.

One extra bonus I gained from this process is that in the past, any images I worked on with Corel Photopaint (it has some good features) never printed anywhere near as well as from Photoshop… Now they do. My technique might not gain wide acclaimed but it sure as hell works for me and may of my friends who have had the same problems which were impossible to fix with ‘curves’ and profiles.

Kakadu… Paradise through a lens.
Kakadu National Park,
Northern Territory, Australia.
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"Mindful" wrote in message

I’m very new at photoshop using Epson C80 and need help understanding how to use color management. The only decent output I get is by using ICM on the printer driver and printer color mgmt in PS.

I tried using "no color enhancement" on the PS Print with Preview driver option along with a variety of options. I’ve printed this image using Photopaint with no color enhancement and no ICC with good results mathcing my various monitors. My source is the jpg i-photo uses for testing. I tried: Adobe 1998, Same as Source, Working RGB, Output instead of Color management, sRGB. I tried combos of perceptual versus relative colorimetric. Colors are too cool (bluish cast) and/or oversaturated.

I’m continuing to test but very much appreciate ideas on what combo might work best.

In article , says…

I had a problem with my Epson R310 and a red colour cast. I fixed it by turning off all colour management (including the printer’s own ICM) and using the advanced adjustments of the printer interface to reduce magenta (-16 points) and yellow (-8 points).

I arrived at these settings by using a known (digital) photograph as a reference point. When it looked right on my monitor, after adjusting the screen colours – Radeon video cards are great for this …I made a print with no ICM profile and no colour management. Next I adjusted the printers colour and density (via Epson management) until the prints looked the same as on the screen.

The reason I did it this way was the conflicting advise from people in this group who insist colour management is essential and even Epson themselves as to how best to balance the colour of a print. I am not alone in total frustration on printer output colour.

Now I can send images to an ‘Lambda’ digital laser photo printer (for enlargements). An Agfa photo lab (client proofs) and my Magicolor Laser (short run postcards) or print on my Epson and except for very slight differences related to paper and ink/toner/chemical peculiarities, they all look pretty much colour correct and the right density.

One extra bonus I gained from this process is that in the past, any images I worked on with Corel Photopaint (it has some good features) never printed anywhere near as well as from Photoshop… Now they do. My technique might not gain wide acclaimed but it sure as hell works for me and may of my friends who have had the same problems which were impossible to fix with ‘curves’ and profiles.

Kakadu… Paradise through a lens.
Kakadu National Park,
Northern Territory, Australia.
———————————————

"Mindful" wrote in message

I’m very new at photoshop using Epson C80 and need help understanding how to use color management. The only decent output I get is by using ICM on the printer driver and printer color mgmt in PS.

I tried using "no color enhancement" on the PS Print with Preview driver option along with a variety of options. I’ve printed this image using Photopaint with no color enhancement and no ICC with good results mathcing my various monitors. My source is the jpg i-photo uses for testing. I tried: Adobe 1998, Same as Source, Working RGB, Output instead of Color management, sRGB. I tried combos of perceptual versus relative colorimetric. Colors are too cool (bluish cast) and/or oversaturated.

Thanks. I continue to experiment. On the net I discovered an Epson guide for printing on the 2200 indicating it would be similar to other Epson printers. It had check off options for both "no color correction" and "ICM". For the 2200, one could check both but only one or the other on the C80. Choosing"ICM" on the driver and either "Printer Color Management" or the C80 driver option on PS Print with Preview gave the best results I’ve had so far. C80 driver gave more saturated colors and a slight magenta cast that needs some tuning. I’ll try your technique of tinkering with color adjustments next.

Thanks. I continue to experiment. On the net I discovered an Epson guide for printing on the 2200 indicating it would be similar to other Epson printers. It had check off options for both "no color correction" and "ICM". For the 2200, one could check both but only one or the other on the C80. Choosing"ICM" on the driver and either "Printer Color Management" or the C80 driver option on PS Print with Preview gave the best results I’ve had so far. C80 driver gave more saturated colors and a slight magenta cast that needs some tuning. I’ll try your technique of tinkering with color adjustments next.

Not to be a bummer, but I think you should put some more time into a color management workflow, before throwing in the towel and going to the little adjustments in the driver. Suffice it to say that when you’re looking at the more obvious problems like a cast, or saturation, you’re sort of missing the bigger issues.

The driver may have some decent capability for adjusting a set of lookup tables, or maybe a matrix (for sat), but it’s sort of like knob-twiddling. Typically that’s all you really get (if that) – a twiddle to compensate for the idiosyncacies of the priter. You need – or will have a simpler time with – a more comprehensive and synergystic solution.

First off, use Photoshop’s Color Settings to set up a workflow. You might have to go thru it a few times, especially with a printer like that, but it’s worth it. Study the working spaces (and their history) online. Above all, use the Soft Proofing; that’s how you’ll see the difference between a tweak and an actual color space transformation. Go one step at a time, and use some generic paper.

I have a shitty little C64 that I use for some stupid stuff, with crappy stock, and I get decent – and predicatable – results all the time. It didn’t take much more than picking the right workflow settings, the right working space (BruceRGB in this case), and a couple clicks with the compensation.I even use the Epson profile My proofs onscreen look exactly like the results I get from the printer, and I can see – really see – what the printer is capable of.

Do a little searching first; it’s not as complex as you think once you spend a little time. Look at the tutorials that people have created online and start from there. It’ll take a couple of hours over a couple of nights, but it’ll be worth it. At the very least, you’ll see just how crappy these printers are! <g>

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No sig, no neuroses

Soft proofing with colour management is not the answer for many Epson printers which produce magenta colour casts. The soft proof looks OK but the printed page is crap. The day Epson actually get it as good as Canon do out of the box will be the day Epson begin to overhaul Canon’s market dominance. It’s all in the ICM profile… Bugger all to do with Photoshop’s colour management.

"Mikey" wrote in message

Thanks. I continue to experiment. On the net I discovered an Epson guide for printing on the 2200 indicating it would be similar to other Epson printers. It had check off options for both "no color correction" and "ICM". For the 2200, one could check both but only one or the other on the C80. Choosing"ICM" on the driver and either "Printer Color Management" or the C80 driver option on PS Print with Preview gave the best results I’ve had so far. C80 driver gave more saturated colors and a slight magenta cast that needs some tuning. I’ll try your technique of tinkering with color adjustments next.

Not to be a bummer, but I think you should put some more time into a color management workflow, before throwing in the towel and going to the little adjustments in the driver. Suffice it to say that when you’re looking at the more obvious problems like a cast, or saturation, you’re sort of missing the bigger issues.

The driver may have some decent capability for adjusting a set of lookup tables, or maybe a matrix (for sat), but it’s sort of like knob-twiddling. Typically that’s all you really get (if that) – a twiddle to compensate for the idiosyncacies of the priter. You need – or will have a simpler time with – a more comprehensive and synergystic solution.

First off, use Photoshop’s Color Settings to set up a workflow. You might have to go thru it a few times, especially with a printer like that, but it’s worth it. Study the working spaces (and their history) online. Above all, use the Soft Proofing; that’s how you’ll see the difference between a tweak and an actual color space transformation. Go one step at a time, and use some generic paper.

I have a shitty little C64 that I use for some stupid stuff, with crappy stock, and I get decent – and predicatable – results all the time. It didn’t take much more than picking the right workflow settings, the right working space (BruceRGB in this case), and a couple clicks with the compensation.I even use the Epson profile My proofs onscreen look exactly like the results I get from the printer, and I can see – really see – what the printer is capable of.

Do a little searching first; it’s not as complex as you think once you spend a little time. Look at the tutorials that people have created online and start from there. It’ll take a couple of hours over a couple of nights, but it’ll be worth it. At the very least, you’ll see just how crappy these printers are! <g>

—
No sig, no neuroses

On 2004-06-29 21:39:23 -0400, "Technoaussie" said:

Soft proofing with colour management is not the answer for many Epson printers which produce magenta colour casts. The soft proof looks OK but the printed page is crap. The day Epson actually get it as good as Canon do out of the box will be the day Epson begin to overhaul Canon’s market dominance. It’s all in the ICM profile… Bugger all to do with Photoshop’s colour management.

Weird – I’m getting really good results. The soft-proofing is working incredibly well; even colors that are way off are on-the-money in the proof. I can really see the printer. I didn’t even consider getting a better profile once I set it up and saw the results.

Oh wait a minute. I’m using a custom workflow. Maybe that’s the difference. Working RGB is BruceRGB, CMYK is ColorSync Generic CMYK, and my proof profile is Epson’s. ColorSync in the printer driver.

BruceRGB made a big difference, for this printer, and for this project, btw.

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No sig, no neuroses

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:39:23 GMT, "Technoaussie" wrote:

Soft proofing with colour management is not the answer for many Epson printers which produce magenta colour casts. The soft proof looks OK but the printed page is crap. The day Epson actually get it as good as Canon do out of the box will be the day Epson begin to overhaul Canon’s market dominance. It’s all in the ICM profile… Bugger all to do with Photoshop’s colour management.

Softproofing only works if you have a proper work=flow set up in the first place. The magenta cast you are complaining about is usually caused by using more than one profile in the workflow.

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Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

"Hecate" wrote in message

Softproofing only works if you have a proper work=flow set up in the first place. The magenta cast you are complaining about is usually caused by using more than one profile in the workflow.

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

I don’t completely understand how Photoshop designers arrived at their colour management profiles. I use as a source space; Adobe Monitor Profile. If I open the ‘convert to Profile’ dialogue, the destination space option I have is Stylus Photo R300 R310 series which is my printer. I have prevented to printer from using it’s own ICC profile (turned it off). I use adjustments in the Epson printer driver to compensate for the magenta cast – it’s not pure magenta either, by the way.

What I can’t determine is if Photoshop assigns the Epson destination profile on it’s own or if it has to be assigned in the profile manager. Before I send photographs to the Lambda, I have to apply a custom profile to the images. If I do that when I send a file to the Epson printer, it looks like crud. Oddly enough, the Minolta laser I have uses it’s own ICC and produces very close colour. Maybe one day I’ll get to the bottom of it but I do know the S9000 Canon photo printer I just pulled out of the picture, always printed spot on colour. Pity about all it’s other faults!

KK

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 17:51:30 +1000, "Kakadu"
wrote:

"Hecate" wrote in message

Softproofing only works if you have a proper work=flow set up in the first place. The magenta cast you are complaining about is usually caused by using more than one profile in the workflow.

Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui

I don’t completely understand how Photoshop designers arrived at their colour management profiles. I use as a source space; Adobe Monitor Profile. If I open the ‘convert to Profile’ dialogue, the destination space option I have is Stylus Photo R300 R310 series which is my printer. I have prevented to printer from using it’s own ICC profile (turned it off). I use adjustments in the Epson printer driver to compensate for the magenta cast – it’s not pure magenta either, by the way.

What I can’t determine is if Photoshop assigns the Epson destination profile on it’s own or if it has to be assigned in the profile manager. Before I send photographs to the Lambda, I have to apply a custom profile to the images. If I do that when I send a file to the Epson printer, it looks like crud. Oddly enough, the Minolta laser I have uses it’s own ICC and produces very close colour. Maybe one day I’ll get to the bottom of it but I do know the S9000 Canon photo printer I just pulled out of the picture, always printed spot on colour. Pity about all it’s other faults!

What you don’t understand isn’t how the designers arrived at their colour profiles, but how colour management works. That’s not meant to be harsh, but it is why you are having problems. The best thing you can do is read about it. I would suggest you get a tutorial based book like Photoshop Artistry by Haynes and Crumpler and read through the sections on colour management (the rest of the book is good too).

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Hecate

veni, vidi, reliqui