color management question

Carlos G wrote:

I just got a new Samsung LCD monitor that had some color management software.

Now any file that I open up in photoshop has a distinct reddish hue compared to when I open it in any other app. I’ve changed the color management options in PS to "color management off" but I’m still getting the problem.

I’m afraid I’m out of my neck of the woods with this issue. Could someone point me in the right direction on how to fix this/

Run Adobe gamma and follow the wizard.
—

Mike Russell
www.geigy.2y.net

Don’t use Adobe Gamma with an LCD monitor, it’s strictly for CRT’s. Your Samsung software cautions you to disable the Adobe Gamma Loader and tells you how to disable it. You don’t need to disable color management either. Make sure your system uses the Samsung color profile (rather than the default generic profile)as it’s default. All this info is contained in the Samsung manual, at least it is in mine. Read the manual carefully and you shouldn’t have any problems. I’m assuming you’re using Windows. "Mike Russell" wrote in message

Carlos G wrote:

I just got a new Samsung LCD monitor that had some color management software.

Now any file that I open up in photoshop has a distinct reddish hue compared to when I open it in any other app. I’ve changed the color management options in PS to "color management off" but I’m still getting the problem.

I’m afraid I’m out of my neck of the woods with this issue. Could someone point me in the right direction on how to fix this/

Run Adobe gamma and follow the wizard.
—

Mike Russell
www.geigy.2y.net

I’m NOT running Adobe Gamma at all. I have it totally turned off.

The Samsung color profile IS selected (through the Windows control panel, I assume)

The Samsung manual doesn’t say anything about color profiles, it just talks about using the Samsung-provided software.

Interestingly enough, if I change the computer to NOT use the color profile, then Photoshop looks like the other applications.

When I do use the color profile, then grays in Photoshop have a distinct red/sapia hue to them.

Carlos

"neon" wrote in message

Don’t use Adobe Gamma with an LCD monitor, it’s strictly for CRT’s. Your Samsung software cautions you to disable the Adobe Gamma Loader and tells you how to disable it. You don’t need to disable color management either. Make sure your system uses the Samsung color profile (rather than the default generic profile)as it’s default. All this info is contained in

the

Samsung manual, at least it is in mine. Read the manual carefully and you shouldn’t have any problems. I’m assuming you’re using Windows. "Mike Russell" wrote in message

Carlos G wrote:

I just got a new Samsung LCD monitor that had some color management software.

Now any file that I open up in photoshop has a distinct reddish hue compared to when I open it in any other app. I’ve changed the color management options in PS to "color management off" but I’m still getting the problem.

I’m afraid I’m out of my neck of the woods with this issue. Could someone point me in the right direction on how to fix this/

Run Adobe gamma and follow the wizard.
—

Mike Russell
www.geigy.2y.net

Carlos G wrote:

I’m NOT running Adobe Gamma at all. I have it totally turned off.
The Samsung color profile IS selected (through the Windows control panel, I assume)

The Samsung manual doesn’t say anything about color profiles, it just talks about using the Samsung-provided software.

Interestingly enough, if I change the computer to NOT use the color profile, then Photoshop looks like the other applications.
When I do use the color profile, then grays in Photoshop have a distinct red/sapia hue to them.

Carlos,

I’d say you have a bad profile from Samsung, then. Assign it to a neutral gradient in Photoshop and see what it does. My guess is you’ll get a color cast. If you see banding, the profile is definitely out to lunch.

If you’re on Windows, try running the profile plotter action on it to see if the profile is from outer space. Or email it to me and I’ll do it.

The plotter is an action for Photoshop 5 and later, free at: http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/profileplotter/index.h tm

See if Samsung has a newer verison of their profile at their web site. —

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Mike could very well be right, but, let me try again. The Adobe Gamma Loader must be removed from your startup seqence…even if you don’t use Adobe Gamma you’ve got to make sure the Loader doesn’t execute on startup. Sorry I can’t remember exactly where it hides…somewhere in the startup sequence. Search your system for "loader" and you should find it. Move it out of the statrup…you don’t have to delete it…just get it out of the startup.
To make sure you’re using the Samsung profile, go into Display properties, click the settings tab > advanced button > color management tab. Now make sure the Samsung profile is set as the default. I’m running XP home and recently installed a Samsung 191T Plus with no problem. I misspoke about the Samsung manual though, the caution about the Loader is in my Monaco Optix manual. Sorry about that but I think the point is still valid…if the Loader executes it could screw things up.
If that doesn’t do it, take Mike up on his offer. He knows his stuff. "Carlos G" wrote in message

I’m NOT running Adobe Gamma at all. I have it totally turned off.
The Samsung color profile IS selected (through the Windows control panel,

I

assume)

The Samsung manual doesn’t say anything about color profiles, it just

talks

about using the Samsung-provided software.

Interestingly enough, if I change the computer to NOT use the color

profile,

then Photoshop looks like the other applications.

When I do use the color profile, then grays in Photoshop have a distinct red/sapia hue to them.

Carlos

"neon" wrote in message

Don’t use Adobe Gamma with an LCD monitor, it’s strictly for CRT’s.

Your

Samsung software cautions you to disable the Adobe Gamma Loader and

tells

you how to disable it. You don’t need to disable color management

either.

Make sure your system uses the Samsung color profile (rather than the default generic profile)as it’s default. All this info is contained in

the

Samsung manual, at least it is in mine. Read the manual carefully and

you

shouldn’t have any problems. I’m assuming you’re using Windows. "Mike Russell" wrote in message

Carlos G wrote:

I just got a new Samsung LCD monitor that had some color management software.

Now any file that I open up in photoshop has a distinct reddish hue compared to when I open it in any other app. I’ve changed the color management options in PS to "color management off" but I’m still getting the problem.

I’m afraid I’m out of my neck of the woods with this issue. Could someone point me in the right direction on how to fix this/

Run Adobe gamma and follow the wizard.
—

Mike Russell
www.geigy.2y.net

From: "neon"

Mike could very well be right, but, let me try again. The Adobe Gamma Loader must be removed from your startup seqence…even if you don’t use Adobe Gamma you’ve got to make sure the Loader doesn’t execute on startup. Sorry I can’t remember exactly where it hides…somewhere in the startup sequence.

Start > All Programs > Startup on XP

I finally got around to working some more on this. Please bear with me, as I don’t know much about color profiles at all.

Mike Russell wrote:

Carlos G wrote:

I’m NOT running Adobe Gamma at all. I have it totally turned off.

I’ve confirmed Adobe Gamma is not in any of my startup entries.

The Samsung color profile IS selected (through the Windows control panel, I assume)

Samsung color profile is installed and selected as default

The plotter is an action for Photoshop 5 and later, free at: http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/profileplotter/index.h tm

I tried this. First time I ran it I got a perfectly diagonal line. This was with Photoshop’s color management off. If in the color management dialog box I pick a different profile, say ColorMatchRGB, and refun the profile plotter (selecting the Samsung profile when the action runs) then I get some nice gamma-like RGB lines. However, at this point I’m not sure if I plotted the Samsung profile, or the ColorMatchRGB profile.

I did some more testing, which has only confused me more. Again, running Photoshop with color management off, Samsung profile selected in Windows:

– Generate a new RGB canvas. Fill with neutral gray (128,128,128). The gray looks gray

– Generate a new Grayscale canvas. Fill with neutral gray (128,128,128). The gray looks a sepia brown color.

– Convert grayscale to RGB. Gray remains sepia. Use the dropper tool to checkout the "gray" color. It returns RGB(143, 125, 112)

Carlos N wrote:

I finally got around to working some more on this. Please bear with me, as I don’t know much about color profiles at all.

You’re not alone.

I’m NOT running Adobe Gamma at all. I have it totally turned off. I’ve confirmed Adobe Gamma is not in any of my startup entries.
The Samsung color profile IS selected (through the Windows control panel, I assume). Samsung color profile is installed and selected as

default

Just to review, this is a Samsung generated monitor profile set as your display profile in the control panel.

The plotter is an action for Photoshop 5 and later, free at: http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/profileplotter/index.h tm

I tried this. First time I ran it I got a perfectly diagonal line. This was with Photoshop’s color management off. If in the color management dialog box I pick a different profile, say ColorMatchRGB, and refun the profile plotter (selecting the Samsung profile when the action runs) then I get some nice gamma-like RGB lines. However, at this point I’m not sure if I plotted the Samsung profile, or the ColorMatchRGB profile.

You plotted the ColorMatch RGB profile. Try plotting your Samsung profile and (based on your description below) you should see the red line bowing up a bit above the blue lines, and green bending upward somewhat less than the red. Look for jaggies. If you see these it’s bad re-run your profile generating code.

I did some more testing, which has only confused me more. Again, running Photoshop with color management off, Samsung profile selected in Windows:

In effect, you are using your display profile as your working profile. To avoid running away screaming from your computer, it is more usual to select Adobe RGB, sRGB, Colormatch, or Apple RGB as your working space. The first two are commonly used for windows, and the last two for Macintosh. This makes it easier to trade images.

– Generate a new RGB canvas. Fill with neutral gray (128,128,128). The gray looks gray

– Generate a new Grayscale canvas. Fill with neutral gray (128,128,128). The gray looks a sepia brown color.

Your system display profile is emphasizing the red and green slightly (or pulling down blue). This may be a result of the color temperature you selected when configuring the monitor.

– Convert grayscale to RGB. Gray remains sepia. Use the dropper tool to checkout the "gray" color. It returns RGB(143, 125, 112)

Now Photoshop is using your Samsung profile to convert the gray color. If I’m not mistaken, this should be a more intense sepia than you saw before, because Photoshop converted the color numbers as well as the system monitor profile.

You are, BTW, exploring areas of color management that very few others venture into, and now you know why. Turn on color management, and use sRGB or Adobe RGB as your working space and this will all go away.

Over and above that, 30+ points between red and blue seems a little extreme to me. Try adjusting the analog controls on your monitor to result in a lower "native" color temp, then re-run your profile generating software. —

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Mike thank you for all your replies – insightful, even though I’m still fairly clueless.

Mike Russell wrote:

Carlos N wrote:

default

Just to review, this is a Samsung generated monitor profile set as your display profile in the control panel.

Yup, windows is set up through the windows control panel with a Samsung monitor profile. This was installed when I installed the monitor driver. It was installed from some pre-canned file, not generated.

You are, BTW, exploring areas of color management that very few others venture into, and now you know why. Turn on color management, and use

sRGB

or Adobe RGB as your working space and this will all go away.

sRGB and ADobe RGB only exasperate the problem. Where as with color management off, only grayscale pictures seem to be affected, with color management on, it appears that color pictures are also affected. Of course, at this point it is hard to tell what "right" is.

Over and above that, 30+ points between red and blue seems a little

extreme

to me. Try adjusting the analog controls on your monitor to result in a lower "native" color temp, then re-run your profile generating software.

The monitor doesn’t have any analog controls. It comes with "Magic TUne" software which allows changing of the color settings directly on the monitor hardware. However, it does not generate a new windows color profile. The color profile was created at installation and not updated.

At this point I’m leaning toward just getting rid of the Samsung profile altogether to see what happens. My main fear, of course, is what things will look like when I go to print photos.

Again, thanks for all your help.

Carlos

Carlos N wrote:

Mike thank you for all your replies – insightful, even though I’m still fairly clueless.

I think your idea of backing out the Samsung profile, and using Adobe gamma instead, is a good starting point. Once you have that working, see if the Samsung software makes things better. If not, sell it on eBay!

BTW – here’s a good description of how to set up your colors in Photoshop.

http://www.computer-darkroom.com/photoshop_6/ps6_1.htm
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7-colour/ps7_1.htm
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps8-colour/ps8_1.htm

Keep at it, you’ll get there.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net