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When you Saved As a Photoshop.pdf: The file needed to still be Layered; the Vector layers must NOT be rasterized; and you need to check the "Save Layers" box in the SaveAs dialog.
nope its still not working, I did a test , the only thing that stays vector is the type that I typed in photoshop. the smart objects that I brought in from illustrator turn to raster either as a PDF , a PSD, or an EPS…
You have to Copy/Paste as Paths the object directly from Illustrator into Photoshop; or, better yet, "Place" the illustrator.pdf directly into InDesign.
When you place Photoshop PDFs in InDesign CS2; and then Print to PDF (even at Press Quality); you will notice that any Vector Smart Objects have been rasterized.
However Type and Shape layers that were originally created IN Photoshop do retain their vectors.
Well, yeah – InDesign doesn’t know how to read the vector data from the Photoshop document, only how to use the rasterized version. InDesign might eventually get there, but you’re talking about an Illustrator or PDF document inside a Photoshop document (with all the Photoshop features still available on the layer), and I don’t think most programs are going to handle that too easily.
Chris, Ann, how about if the circumstance is identical but instead of placing the SO-carrying Photoshop PDF in InDesign, it’s placed in Illustrator? Will the SOs remain vector if you Save As or Print to PDF from Illustrator?
Chris Cox – 10:07am Sep 29, 06 PST (#13 of 16) Well, yeah – InDesign doesn’t know how to read the vector data from the Photoshop document, only how to use the rasterized version. InDesign might eventually get there, but you’re talking about an Illustrator or PDF document inside a Photoshop document (with all the Photoshop features still available on the layer), and I don’t think most programs are going to handle that too easily.
This may be true Chris, but who in the hell prints out of Photoshop as vectors. Even Export Photoshop PDF’s don’t work correctly with SO.
Chris, but who in the hell prints out of Photoshop as vectors?
Oh, I am so glad you asked that and not me.
….but if you did, could you print to a postscript file that would work in a DTP workflow and have SO’s maintained as vectors?
In all my years (and this would include ALL the years of desktop publishing) I have never printed from Photoshop in a production environment, but times change… along with software and hardware.
No, printing from Photoshop will not use the vector data from the SO — it can’t possibly do that.
You’re confusing a native Photoshop vector (like type) which we can print and manipulate with smart object (which we don’t know the contents of and cannot generally manipulate).
They are still vectors and we can resize them, rotate them, color convert them, etc. But yes, they are too complex to output for printing or export except in their original state (as PDF, EPS, or Illustrator files).
Perhaps someday PSD files will contain some type of sidecar metadata that will virtually "package" any SO’s in the file, and a future InDesign version will read those fat PSDs and be able to pull the SO vector data from the original files when it prints the placed PSD, with all vectors maintained.
Easy for me to say, right?
For the time being, it sure is nice to have non-destructive transform options for SO layers in Photoshop master documents… even placed raster elements with infinite scaling options. Reminds me of Live Picture’s capabilities years ago and is really handy when working out ideas for a new composite.
Amazingly, it actually runs better, and is extremely stable, on a modern G5 (in Classic of course) than it did when the last version was issued in 1998!
<< will read those fat PSDs and be able to pull the SO vector data from the original files>>
Paul, which "original files" are you referring to? Do you mean external files that were the original source of the SO?
I ask because, as I understand it (after lots of questions and experimentation), no connection – no link – is preserved between an external file and an SO. The "original data" is brought into the PSD when the external data is first placed. From that moment on, the PSD couldn’t give a hoot what happens to the external file.
So I’m guessing what we want is that other applications "will read those fat PSDs and be able to pull the original vector data that the PSD is housing."
(And, of course, I could still have all this wrong.)
Correct. No link is preserved to the original file that makes the SO. But if Photoshop can house the vector data in its own file, then someday maybe other applications will be able to read it.
My comment about "packaging" the original files for the benefit of other future SO-savvy programs was perhaps a confusing analogy for making the point.
If you look at the way that Photoshop creates and employs Vectors, you will see that it is designed to incorporate discrete paths filled either with a single color (as in Type layers), or a single color, pattern or a simple gradient as in Shape, Gradient, Pattern layers.
Imported Illustrator files are usually FAR more complex so I don’t see how they could ever be incorporated fully into the architecture of a Photoshop file and still retain all of the numerous vector elements in the original.
If you want to retain vectors in a complex Illustrator file, surely it is easier to either just place it in an InDesign file; or to add the Photoshop image into the Illustrator file?
If you want to retain vectors in a complex Illustrator file, surely it is easier to either just place it in an InDesign file; or to add the Photoshop image into the Illustrator file?
Obviously.
But the future of SO output capability could be much more… time will tell.
We don’t really need a new file format for that. What we do need is close coordination between a dozen different product teams trying to chase a moving target (because each team is adding features while trying to support the features of the other teams). We’ll get there, but it takes some time.
A single format would make things worse — it would have to simultaneously address the needs of dozens of applications (jack of all trades, master of none) and be kept in synchronization between all of those applications.
DNG targets a very specific useage, and that can be standardized.
Is it technically feasible to have a program like InDesign "call out" to Photoshop when printing a layout that contains a placed PSD?
If so, perhaps each program in the Creative Suite could become, in some way, an engine for driving their native files through print using InDesign as the manager of sorts.
Put another way, if PSD’s can hold vector data in SOs, and this data remains vector when printed through Photoshop, perhaps a future InDesign version could (when instructed) put a call out to Photoshop’s print engine when it encounters a PSD element, and ingnore the flattened raster PSD that it currently defaults to. This could treat that part of the InDesign doc as a native PSD and perhaps retain any SO vectors contained within.
It may not be possible to also use InDesign’s native layer effects on top of these PSDs, but for certain workflow and printing situations, it might be a huge step forward in useability of SOs in native PSDs.
More options are needed when – a majority of things are broken and a ton of work arounds are needed.
Maybe we shall never see that stage of development due to the nature of the beast.
Just because you can build and ad in Photoshop does not mean you should. Just because you can save files in 6 different formats, does not mean you should.
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